Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins in Timothy Kuo. We've had so much going on lately. Personally at work, all the things. What have you guys been up to like in your personal life? Slightly.
Leslie: I just got done having a kid free weekend, which was kind of crazy, but a little needed.
I hate to say that. Yeah, so we, our kids didn't have school and so grandparents luckily have been really helping us out cause they had a half day. And then no school. And, and so it's just been a lot on us cuz we still have to work and so it's really not fun for the kids to sit home all day while we're working.
Yeah. Um, so anyways, they ended up being gone for the whole weekend, which worked out really well. We went downtown Detroit and just kind of hopped around, had some good meals and enjoyed each other's company. It was quite nice. You always need that. That's
Christina: always very important. It's a good
Leslie: little refresher.
Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:00] Yeah. That is so nice. I miss them though. I'm ready for them to come back. Yeah. , it's, it's good for everybody, right? I think it's, and it's nice. Our kids like so easily go to grandparents and stay the night, like it's just no big deal. Yeah.
Christina: And then your, the grandparents I'm sure love that time.
You know, they, because it, they, They get to just spoil them. Oh. And they
Leslie: do terribly so. Yeah, absolutely terrible. Yeah, they bebo between uh, my parents and Brian's parents, so they got everybody. That's great. Yeah, it was very nice. It was very nice. Timothy, what's up with you? What have you been doing this weekend?
Timothy: Well, this weekend we had a tragedy. The worm got a riff in it. So glacier was the press, not the word told. We the worm, you know how important the worm is. Yeah. So, uh, We put new stuffing in it, fixed the tear and she's all happy. And right now she just brought it to me just showing how proud she is that we fixed the
Christina: worm.
Timothy, for those who don't know, let's explain. What is the worm ? The
Timothy: worm is a six foot caterpillar [00:02:00] with all different colors and antlers, and that is her like, you know everybody ? Yeah,
Leslie: my antlers, but little antlers.
Christina: The worm at antlers mouth. I was like, this is a
Leslie: unique worm.
Christina: But
Timothy: it's, it's, you know, like Linus has his blanket, Uhhuh.
yeah. Peanuts. Mm-hmm. . This is. Blanket. So everywhere she, everywhere we travel, the worm
Christina: goes with us. Yeah, it's lit. Dog glacier's,
Leslie: little toy. Well, I'm so glad, well, big toy that the, the worm has pulled through. That sounds like an intense, uh, situation. This weekend
Timothy: it was, she knew something happened and she was depressed, so she saw the worm all as well.
Leslie: That
Christina: is good. That is good. Yeah.
Leslie: And Christina, what about you? Any tragedies in your life this weekend? , thankfully no
Christina: tragedies, just, you know, I'm doing a lot of like spring cleaning type stuff. I'm kind of just this past weekend was like, well, you know, I had a couple things to do, but. those weekends when you don't have too many applications, you gotta get all that other [00:03:00] stuff in.
Yeah. So it's basically what I was doing was like starting to go through my clothes and cleaning, which is fun. Not, um, but yeah.
Leslie: So you adult, you
Christina: were adult. I know. Listen me, you know, Leslie was having fun. Timothy was fixing tragedies, and I was just adult.
Leslie: Now, who's the old one? Let's talk about that.
Christina always says I'm the old, but now I'm without having a good old time. I know. Spring cleaning over there. Yeah. Unbelievable. It's fine. All right. All right. Well, Today our guests are both leader dog team members who are instrumental in our puppy prison razor initiative. Yes.
Christina: We've had so many people ask us to talk about this and our two guests, their first one is Bev Ferguson, and she's been a member of the Leader Dog team for 29 years and is the manager of canine development.
She oversees the development and execution of the puppy development team. She has also. 13 puppies for Leader Dog, and she started when she was 11 years [00:04:00] old and has house to three female breeding stacked dogs. And our second guest is VJ Yoshi. She joined Leader Dog as a volunteer puppy razor in 2014.
Currently she works as a puppy coordinator and puppy development as a coordinator. She oversees 80 to a hundred puppy razors and dogs, and she really enjoys working with those puppy razors, whether they're raising in a correctional facility on a college campus or in an outside family environment. I'd like
Timothy: to thank both of you all for being on this podcast today.
I've seen this on YouTube, how this process work, and this is a win-win for everybody cuz it helps a client and it also helps somebody who's in one of those facilities. So thank you guys for doing this. Do you guys mind telling us a little bit about yourself? Start off with Bev.
Bev: All right. Well thank you so much for having us.
We're excited to be here and talk about one of our favorite initiatives as well in our puppy raising program. And, um, as Christina mentioned, all of my background with Leader Dog. I have [00:05:00] pretty much made this a lifelong, uh, adventure and started out as a volunteer when I was 11. You know, here I am several decades later, still involved in as a team member.
So love what I do, and I'm so excited to talk to you today about our prison program.
Christina: And rj, what about you?
VJ: Well, first and foremost, I wanna reiterate what Beth said. Thank you so much for having us, uh, to get the word out there on how near and dear these programs meet to us in puppy Development is just a fabulous opportunity.
My journey started with a hot air balloon, right? And that. Um, into puppy raising because I met a puppy razor. The pilot on that hot air balloon ride was a puppy razor. And from being a volunteer puppy razor, I went into counseling. I one of the correctional facilities, so I, I'm really excited to share with you as [00:06:00] much as you need.
Bev: How
VJ: Right. ? I was not expecting it. I, I went for a hot air balloon ride and my family wasn't expecting it, but I haven't turned back. Um, that's
Leslie: awesome. Haven't turned back. . That's so, so cool. You just never know, you know? Yeah. Days take a turn pretty quickly. I love that. That's really, really neat. So Bev, do you mind just telling us about the, the Correctional Facility Initiative and how it got started and maybe the correct term so we make sure we're saying it right?
This, the rest of the podcast? Yes.
Bev: Sure. So, About 22 years ago, I was fortunate enough to take the phone call. Um, it started from a, uh, prison guard in Iowa who also happened to be a Lions Club member. And so that was the tie in to Leader Dog. He. I had seen a program about puppies being [00:07:00] raised in a correctional facility, but not for our organization.
And because he was a Lion's Club member and LinkedIn to Leader Dog, he wanted to know if that was something we would consider. At his facility. And so he gave me a call. He gave a very passionate plea about why we should do this. And you know, there was just something about his voice on the phone that made me really take notice and be interested in at least exploring the option.
I was in my early twenties at the time, and you know, the thought of going to an all male correctional facility. Several states away from Michigan, uh, was not, uh, an easy decision . Um, but uh, when I started talking to my supervisor at the time, he said, you know, go with your gut. What does your gut tell you to sit to do, and do you think this would be a good thing for Leader Dog?
So, oddly enough, [00:08:00] as anybody who's involved with Leader Dog, we all know that there's kind of these. Interlocking webs that we weave about how we get from one place to another. So my mom and I happened to be competing in one of our dog sports that we do as our hobby and we were gonna be going to Nebraska for it.
And so we decided that Nebraska's near Iowa, sorta kinda and yeah, while we were out there. This would be an opportunity for us to at least go and and see the facility. And so I made an appointment to meet with the warden and some of the people there, and they took me on a tour of the correctional facility.
and I was really surprised. It was not what I expected, it wasn't what I see on tv, um, where they show all the worst parts that happen in a correctional facility. And, uh, what this [00:09:00] really reminded me of was a little bit more like a college campus that happened to be behind. fencing. Um, the, the rooms didn't have the bars that you pull across.
They had doors. Um, the, they didn't have what you call cells. But they had rooms. Um, and, and it was more, like I say, it was more like a college campus. And of course we were working and looking at the guys that they consider in their honors unit, so I'm sure there were. portions on their campus that look like that, but that's not where our guys would be housed.
So I, I had a really good feeling when I left there from meeting with the warden who years later, um, we just had such a great working relationship with, uh, obviously the very passionate Lions Club member that was, uh, a guard there. and it really [00:10:00] had all the makings of a really great opportunity. So the one piece we were lacking was a volunteer that was going to be able to go in.
For us and work with those inmate razors every day or, or, uh, during the month. And lo and behold, we had one razor in Iowa at the time, and she happened to live just about an hour away from this correctional facility. Her and her husband were state troopers for Iowa . So here's where this web starts to get very interwoven.
Um, so Carol Ann, uh, actually wasn't working as a state trooper at the time, and, uh, her husband still was. And so they were very interested and very excited about the opportunity to help and support this. They were only raising their first puppy at the time. Um, and they [00:11:00] continued to raise puppies and be a part of our correctional facilities in Iowa for the next 20 years.
Uh, they raised, uh, 20 puppies while doing so, and over the time they were part of three different correctional facilities in Iowa. That at sometimes one of the facilities alone was raising almost a hundred puppies. Oh my God. Every year. . Wow. We just, it was, uh, certainly was absolutely, uh, an amazing opportunity and, uh, really great time.
We had so many great things happened from it. And, uh, so, so during the time we were raising there, obviously getting to know Warden McKen. Uh, James McKinney, who was the one that, uh, we started with, uh, he was very passionate as well and helped grow in Iowa, uh, thi this mission for us to raise, but we [00:12:00] still couldn't get into Michigan.
Which was, was really interesting that we had all of this going for us in Iowa, but we really just couldn't transition into Michigan until we met another warden who took that passion and helped us grow. And that was, uh, warden Randy Haass. And, uh, through there he helped us get into the Michigan Department of Corrections.
We've had as many as 12, uh, prison facilities in Michigan. Wow. And we are currently at nine. , uh, in Michigan, we have one facility in Minnesota and so, uh, all of those facilities are what we call min, are what are called in the facilities in the prison program. They're called minimum security or minimum secured facilities.
Yeah. All of our facilities are all men, which is another question we get asked all the time. Um, Mo and that is really because most [00:13:00] facilities are male facilities. There is only one women's correctional facility in Michigan and they have a dog program currently. So we only work in facilities that have no other dog programs.
because we, we do put in young puppies into the facilities, and so we wanna make sure that we're not cross contaminating germs with another organization and keeping our puppies safe and healthy.
Christina: This is amazing, Bev. I have never, I never
Leslie: knew. So how this substantial, yeah. How
Christina: everything flowed and went together.
Yeah. So, you know, I'm sure people are curious. What's it like to actually. Vj, be in that prison and work with those people in the correctional facilities.
VJ: Oh my goodness. So make no mistake entering a prison. Can't be mistaken for anything
Leslie: else .
VJ: It is. It's a prison. But what is a surprise? Is it once inside?[00:14:00]
and you get to the location of where the puppy class is being held. The focus moves away from the prisoners, the sergeants, the crimes, and the sentences being served. It becomes about those puppies. It becomes about the mission, preparing the puppy to become a potential guide dog. and henceforth how that's going to impact one of our clients.
Uh, I remember very vividly the first time I entered, um, the facility, which I became a counselor for, uh, and I had to go through security, um, just to walk through a metal detector and all the things, the staff, they were so welcoming, they were so kind, and they made it as smooth and fluid as possible. . Um, and once at the location, usually our classes are held in gyms the majority of the time, and sometimes they're held in the [00:15:00] cafeteria, uh, depending on the size and depending on the schedule.
but once in that area, it's all about learning. It's all about the puppies. Uh, Beth mentioned about our liaisons. Mm-hmm. , who are an intricate part in working with our counselors and also our coordinators, and they organized this for us. , um, the inmates staff in prison as a whole, they're all brought together for a single purpose to help their puppies succeed.
Um, no one forgets where we're at, , but there's a larger purpose. and the trainings are about an hour to two hours long, depending on the facility and, uh, what they can offer. And the skills that we cover are just the same as any other puppy razors. Working on for that month. Every month there's a new skill [00:16:00] that a puppy razor has to work on with their puppies, um, both for themselves and the puppy they're raising.
And it's the same in the correctional facility. , um, it, it, it is a joy to see these razors learn and grow and then it's a celebration when one of their dogs graduates
Leslie: and gets matched up. So I'm curious, you know, the, what are the benefits, I guess I would say for both us and on the other end of the prisoners and the correctional facility.
Bev: So I'd like to share a little bit about what happens, uh, for our guys that are raising. Uh, we use positive reinforcement through how we raise our puppies. Mm-hmm. , and we train our dogs and. We transfer that teaching method to our inmate population, of which most of them have never learned this way. [00:17:00] And so before you know it, they're working in teams.
They are very positive, they are very, uh, engaged, as VJ says, they're so engaged and passionate about what they do with their puppies. and they're honored that we are giving them a chance with this living, breathing puppy that comes into their lives and doesn't judge them for what they've done in the past.
Um, this puppy loves them for who they are, and so you take all of that together and they, they just become, uh, just really engaged in the whole process and. For us, some of the benefits are, we get razors that because they're gonna be incarcerated for several years, uh, some of them, some of them are nearer their, um, nearer to getting out and released, and then they start raising for us when they're on the outside.
Mm-hmm. , but, [00:18:00] but when they're, when they're inside, so we call them inside and outside razors. So, uh, our inside razors, um, if they're gonna be there for multiple years, , we get the benefit of having that razor get better and better and better at what they do with each puppy that they receive. And then they start to mentor and coach the new people coming in to the puppy raising process.
Mm-hmm. . And again, what you see is this teamwork and things that you never re really see from this population of guys. When we first started, one of the things that the very first facility all the way through every facility that we've worked with has said is that once you start putting puppies in with these inmate razors, you start to see a different line of communication between the guards and the inmate pup, puppy razors, [00:19:00] and they also see a diffusion of.
Altercations and fights that happen within the population in as a whole. And we've seen that and we've heard that from every single facility that we've gone into. So there's, there's just so many benefits. Yeah. To what we see and what they see in the facilities themselves. I love
Timothy: that. Do you mind telling us what the success rate of these dogs are?
And I heard that uh, the prisoners that are, are in these facilities, the return rate coming back to prison is lower because of these dogs. They've impacted these prisoners lives so much.
Bev: Yeah, absolutely. The, uh, recidivism rate is, uh, is completely um, changed with the guys who raise puppies for us. Very few of them ever wind back up into prison.
Um, and, and in Michigan they look at that as, uh, two years [00:20:00] outside of the facility. Um, so they have to be out and stayed out for at least two years. Um, but we find that most of the, the guys that race for us, this changes their life. To a point where they don't ever want to come back. They d they wanna be part of something bigger.
They were given a, an option to do something really great and, uh, they just learn a different way of life. And we've, we've had several that have come back and raised puppies for us, uh, while they've been on the outside and they just continue their journey that way. That's so
Leslie: cool. I love that. .
Christina: I think that's amazing that, you know, not only are they doing such a great thing for our organization, but we're also able to help them, you know, maybe change their
Leslie: life too.
Yeah, that's awesome. So, vj, I'm curious, so when you're going in there, you know, one of the things we talk about with puppy razors or outside puppy razors is they're exposure, right? So they're taking dogs to all sorts of different environments and expos them to new [00:21:00] things. How are you able to do that with our inside puppy razors or do we notice a difference or any, anything along those lines,
VJ: Oh no, you heard about my three ring ? No, I,
Leslie: no, I have no idea. But now I'm delighted to learn about. Yes.
VJ: So when I go in, um, the correctional facility, you have to understand that they don't have a lot of the exposure. Mm-hmm. , which I'm pretty sure you're imagining already. That the outside razors do. Mm-hmm.
there aren't Christmas tree decoration opportunities. There aren't, um, Easter egg hunts. There aren't children there running around. Um, there aren't. Uh, there aren't a lot of things. A bicycle. A skateboard. So when I first started, uh, a lot of the counselors that were already working in these facilities gave me a lot of ideas on games, on [00:22:00] props, on objects to bring to help these puppies and these razors work on things that weren't in the facilities.
So I. Got the acronym three Ring Circus, because I would bring so many things in that the guy said, oh wait, vj, you got your three ring circus . Cause I would be bringing in hula hoops. I would be bringing in um, little funny rabbits that clap their hands and are hopping and little weasel that are rolling around on the ball.
And so they, they just have a blast. To have the opportunity to have these things. Little automotive cars, right? Things that we do not think of. Sounds, CDs, of sounds, um, trains, horns, um, maybe birds or animals or children laughing. Uh, we use so many different items [00:23:00] that we try to get these skills worked with the puppies, but.
In that own environment there. So even though they don't see the children, they hear the voices. And sometimes when they have, um, visitation, if there are family members that come, they can go there. So it's really a unique but opportunity. For a counselor or a staff member or volunteer to get creative?
Correct.
Bev: Um,
VJ: you, you have Christmas tree, light up decoration games. You have tic-tac toe games, you have musical chairs. You have a mock airplane that we set up and you get seat. A lot of things that you think, oh, well how are you gonna do that in the prison? We probably already have cause we brought the three Ring Circus in.
So, um, some of the counselors that are outside counselors say, well, we wanna go to prison [00:24:00] with you.
Leslie: Right. I wanna be part of the circus. Great time. I
VJ: don't wanna go and play. So
Leslie: I'm curious. So then we, we bring the dogs back just like we do for our outside razors. What communication then do our inmates receive about their.
VJ: So the communication that they receive is through their liaison. They get the same updates that an outside razor would get as the dog progresses. Uh, if the dog is matched with a client, hopefully they will get that update as well. Emails go directly to the liaison of the facility and they will share it with the group that raised that dog.
If a dog is career change, that information goes as well. So any updates that are given to any other razor are similarly given to the liaison to give these razors.
Leslie: That's awesome. , I think that's so great. Are there any, any, uh, um, I don't know, what do I wanna say? Like, [00:25:00] really unique thing? I mean obviously the Three Ring Circus is quite unique in the whole pro uh, program is unique, but I'm just curious, any like, stories that really stand out or successes or anything like that that you'd wanna share?
Bev: Well, I, I think right now we have a puppy razor who, uh, we've had many success stories of, of guys that have continued on when they, uh, leave. Uh, the facilities and come into mainstream life again. Uh, but we have a couple. One is a puppy razor right now who raised in Iowa, um, and he is currently raising, uh, he raised for a very active client of ours who ended up be, um, winning guide dog of the year.
And, uh, he was so proud. Of that, uh, opportunity and he still continues to raise. Uh, now, um, we have another one of our, uh, razors, uh, after he left the facility again, continuing to [00:26:00] raise puppies, but he is also taking, uh, Karen Pryor Dog training certification. Forces so that he can get even better in understanding and then also help others.
Which, um, going back to, I mentioned Warden Jim McKinney, uh, was so instrumental in, in helping us understand really what our role was. And as a warden, he always would say, My job is to give these guys as many opportunities and skills to be good on the outside when they leave, because they're gonna be neighbors for someone, and I want them to be the best neighbor they can be.
And I think we think about that a lot. Like we want them to be the best version of themselves when they leave. We get story after story letter after letter of guys telling us how this has changed their life, it has [00:27:00] impacted their life, and, uh, all of the things that the dog, not only the dog, the puppies have done for them, but also what we as an organization have done for them to be able to help.
Think about their life differently and give them another opportunity. I did wanna mention a really exciting, uh, course that we do offer outside of puppy raising as well. We were very fortunate to receive a large grant and we put together a dog trainer professional course. And this is a written course that.
our guys can take whether they're raising puppies or not, and they, they read through chapters, they have to take testing, and once they go all the way through, which if they work really hard, they may finish in about nine months to a year. It's a very extensive course, but when they leave, they're not only.
they haven't only [00:28:00] just been, been puppy razors for Leader dog and learned how to raise a puppy for our organization, but this course expands their knowledge so that when they leave, they have other dog skills that they can go on and then share and run dog training classes and, um, maybe go help and work at other facilities.
Work with dogs or animals because they have this certification, uh, that comes from Leader Dog that says they completed this course with us. Um, and so that's been really exciting and really advancing in their knowledge. And during C O V D when. The prison facilities shut down and we had to take back all of the puppies because they couldn't care for them in that environment.
It still gave the guys hope and something to do that was involved with us, that they could continue on in their courses and, and do different things. And so that's been really exciting and [00:29:00] beneficial, uh, continuing through how we're helping. Just share what we do and, and how we do it. That's
Leslie: incredible.
And I want, or we want to thank both of you for all of the work that you're doing. I think that's absolutely incredible. And I can absolutely hear the passion in both of your voices. You love what you guys are doing, and you guys are making such a difference, um, all over the place. So thank you so much for not only doing what you do, but also joining us here.
Bev: Our pleasure. For sure. Thank you so much.
Leslie: Absolutely. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kuo and Christina Heppner. We hope you enjoyed learning about our Prison Puppy initiative. Please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: If you'd like to learn more about applying to Leader Dog for our free services or being a puppy Razor, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the [00:30:00] lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you'd like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Street.
This season of the Taking the Lead podcast is brought to you by a longtime supporter of Leader Dog, the Mary P DCI Halleran
Leslie: Foundation. As you may know, generous donors like this one make it possible to achieve our mission. The Mary p
Christina: DCI Halleran Foundation supports the study of mathematics and mathematics education.
Leslie: For more information about our generous sponsor, visit their website at www.dolchihalloranfoundation.org.