Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hoeppner with my co-host Leslie Haskins in Timothy Kun. So I know you guys, I'm actually gonna take a trip soon. I'm gonna take vacation. Ugh. It's about time. I mean,
Leslie: right? I I, you didn't even ask. I know. I guess it's gonna be fine.
Christina: So I'm gonna be gone for, actually, I'm gonna be gone from work for a while because I have a work trip the week before, but I'm going, oh my gosh, I'm going to Germany. Wow. Which is gonna be very exciting. I have never been to, um, anywhere over there. So. I'm going for October Fest. Okay. Okay. Which will be fun.
Good time in my life to do it. But I've heard, you know, you only wanna go for one day. So we've booked a whole bunch of different trips. We're gonna go, you know, see this beautiful castle. We're gonna go to Austria for a day. Who's we?
Leslie: Who's? Who's we? Oh, Johnny and I, I, oh, oh, oh. Sorry. Just [00:01:00] Johnny and I. Okay.
Yeah. It's making sure we know everybody. Yeah. Inquiring minds. Wanna know who we is. Yeah. Yeah.
Christina: So we are still together as of now.
Timothy: Are you, are you gonna try a warm beer while you're there? Oh,
Leslie: is that the thing? Uh, yeah. They
Christina: don't surf cold beer. It's all like, yeah. So like, I guess Octoberfest two, apparently the, the beer is like, The alcohol content is like way higher than it is in the us.
So like someone was telling me like, you're probably only gonna drink like two beers like the whole time, but why is it warm? That's how they always serve it, I guess. I think that's how beer's supposed to be served.
Leslie: Uh, I, I don't believe that. I don't know. It's probably better. Do they know it's better
Christina: cold?
Here's the thing, it's probably more, more fresh. Let. There. 'cause it probably, I don't know.
Leslie: I'm making things up up. I think you're making that up. I'm making it up. I dunno. I'm, I'm just trying to just, I mean, Michigan has like a ton of breweries. That's
Christina: true. They make their own beer. Well, maybe they make it differently.
I mean, their alcohol content is way higher. [00:02:00] All right. Well do some
Leslie: research while you're there, you're gonna have to report back. All
Christina: right. If I make it back, I'm just waiting it back.
Leslie: Well, that sounds really fun. That's gonna be a great trip. We can't wait to hear about it. I know. And Timothy, you're traveling too.
Yeah,
Timothy: we're getting ready to go to Alaska. Uh, glacier's getting to go with US.
Leslie: Glacier in Alaska. Glac Alaska. Alaska, Alaska.
Timothy: Last year we didn't get to see a, a glacier because our ship caught on fire, so we lost that. What port? Yeah, our ship caught on fire last
Leslie: year. Why did we not hear that?
Timothy: Yeah. Oh, we were at our mustard station.
That's how close it was. Us getting off. We just left Sitka about. Two hours before that and the ship caught on fire. It was pretty hairy there for a while, but, uh,
Leslie: oh my God. Yeah. You know what? I'm not sure either of you should be traveling now. That about it. I'm gonna just be here. I don't know how comfortable I am with this.
Christina: Hey, this happens to me all the time. Okay. All
Leslie: right. I will hold down the fort. Okay, so you're going back to Alaska. That'll be really exciting. Yep. So
Timothy: we're going, we're going back 'cause I want to. Didn't get [00:03:00] to see a glacier last year, and so this might be my last opportunity with how bad my sight's getting.
So I wanna see one before I got my binoculars ready to go. And so we planned it. So Glacier gets to go, we're flying to Seattle and we're gonna have good times. So, and she'll be able to work beyond the ship and Cheryl get to enjoy her week too. I won't have to be hanging onto her or using my cane and, and all that stuff.
So, uh, I got glacier.
Leslie: Nice. That sounds fantastic. What's the
Christina: weather like there at that time of year? Uh
Timothy: uh, last year, about the same time, it was like maybe 57, 58 degrees. Okay. Oh,
Christina: okay. So it's like fall.
Timothy: It's fall and not too cold at night, but it rained. Yeah. And uh, you just deal with it. It's not bad rain, heavy rain, but it is rainforest.
Alaska is a rainforest, so, oh, a lot of people don't know
Leslie: that, but
Christina: it is. Yeah, apparently that's kind of like the weather in Germany is the fifties right now. Look
Leslie: at us. We're basically like a travel podcast now. I, gosh, educating. [00:04:00] Well, we need to do a podcast while we're going. We can switch everything.
Switch gears. We're gonna do
Christina: travel. Guys. Germany's time difference. I'm not calling him from Germany.
Leslie: It's, it'll be five hours in Alaska.
Christina: Difference. So I don't know the difference. I just know that when I fly out on a Monday night, I get to Germany on a Tuesday morning, but then when I leave Germany on a Tuesday, I get back to the US on a Tuesday.
I, so, I don't know. Johnny knows all that logistical stuff. I'm not good at like time.
Leslie: I'm not good at time. Alright. I'm a little nervous about everybody getting back in one piece, but I'm excited for both of you. It sounds like it's gonna be a fantastic time and we can't wait to hear about it. Yeah. Great.
Well, as we're moving along, I guess we'll get back to our core, talking about blindness and, uh, leader dogs specifically, although travel is fun and travel is a huge piece of what we talk about, so. Today's guest, though, is not only a Leader dog client, but she also sits on one of our committees, which is a very important role we're gonna discuss.
Christina: [00:05:00] Yes. Maria Ick is a senior financial analyst with the Dormitory authority of the State of New York. She serves as a volunteer non-trust member of Leader Dog's Assistive Technology, accessibility and Advocacy Committee, and serves as Treasurer of Guide Dog Users Incorporated. And Maria holds a JD in finance transactions.
And an M B A in finance from the university at Buffalo. And Maria has both working at Leader Dog Osaka and a retired leader dog Lacey. And both of them are chocolate labs. Maria, welcome
Timothy: to the podcast. We've been looking forward to having you on here. Do you mind telling us how you got involved with Leader
Maria: Dog?
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I've been listening since the beginning, so it's great to be on as a guest. I've been totally blind since birth, and my teacher, the visually impaired, had had a guide to dog, but I never really thought about getting one. I didn't grow up around dogs, but then I went to college and there were several students there with guide dogs.
One which. [00:06:00] Was from Leader Dog and one of the moments for me that just really changed my mind, there was a hailstorm and it was actually, I was with the student who had a leader dog, and her dog was patterned to the dorm and she knew where she had to go. And just being able to grab onto her and seeing the.
Speed and fluidity and her competence in getting us through that weather situation. And then getting to hang out with all these dogs, you know, and play with them. I was like, I need to have a guide dog. And so I started and uh, so I started to do, um, some research. Um, The various guide dog schools and one of the resources actually guide Dog Users Inc.
Uh, that I'm treasurer of. As Christina said, we have under our resources section a school surveys section, and so I was researching things like the training methods and length of class and cues used and the how much the class could be customized to my needs and, and. Follow up support the application process and [00:07:00] just the openness to using navigational technology in class, which really wasn't, uh, in some case of some programs, they weren't as open to that in 20 10, 20 11 timeframe as they were now.
And so, uh, leader Dog was just there at the top of my list. And then what really cemented when I. Spoke with client services and just the exuberance and the joy that the client services coordinators had, and I just felt like it would be a great personality fit. So a y a week after graduating college, uh, in 2011, I was at Leader Dog to get my Lacy Puppy.
And, uh, then in, uh, 2022 I went back to get Osaka. And, um, it's just been so life changing in, in so many ways, not only with, um, Having beautiful and wonderful and competent guide dogs, but just in other ways. There were a couple of board members, uh, during my time when I was getting Lacey and one of them suggested the J D M B A.
And so that really informed, you know, my direction and, uh, educational journey. And [00:08:00] another of the members is the chair of this AAA committee that we're going to talk about now. And um, so it's just been a really wonderful experience and really glad for the opportunity to be able to give back now.
Christina: That is amazing, Maria.
One, I love the research that you put behind choosing a school because that's not an easy decision for anyone, you know, deciding, um, you know, what organization to go to or, you know, you said there's other different schools too out there, and that is a big decision, so that's awesome. And so you have your second guide dog now, and I did not know that you decided to go back to school because of a board member.
How cool is that? So you've mentioned it a little bit, we're gonna talk about that committee that you're on. So the Assistive Technology Accessibility and Advocacy Committee. So that's something we're really working on at Leader Dog Maria. How did you get involved with
Maria: that? Yeah, so as I said, the chair of that committee, the person who is now the chair, because this is [00:09:00] a new committee we've been meeting for just about a year now.
Uh, she had. To be at Leader Dog in 2011, uh, while I was getting Lacey. And so we got to spend quite a bit of time, uh, getting to, to know each other and talking, and she could tell that technology was an interest of mine. And then I got to see her again when I was given the opportunity to speak at a Leader dog fundraising event.
And just, uh, when the committee was being put together, she. You know, kindly thought of me and recommended me. And, um, during my time getting Osaka, I had gotten to meet, uh, Sue Daniels, the c e o when she came to have lunch with clients. And so it all just kind of came together that I was approached to, uh, serve and that I was accepted, uh, by the, by the board.
Uh, and it's just been. A really wonderful experience. Um, we make, as you said, there are the three different components of the committee. So on the uh, [00:10:00] assistive technology side, we, uh, make recommendations and give some input on priorities for, uh, leader dog's. Implementation of assistive technology. So, you know, we've talked about the, the program that Leader Dog has of issuing the g p s units to certain, uh, program participants.
And we've talked about what Leader Dog's doing on campus in terms of technology. Like there's an app called, uh, Navi Lens that enables. Uh, users to scan signs that are produced for the app with their phones and get navigational information on where they are on campus. And then we talk about it's, that's quite a fun part.
Uh, we about the technology because we also get to talk about apps that we might recommend that, uh, leader Dog Tell, you know, share with clients, um, both from o and m and, and Guide Dog. So things like, there's an app called OCO that. Uses the iPhone's camera and artificial intelligence to communicate the status of inaccessible [00:11:00] traffic signals.
Um, so that's one aspect. And then in terms of the accessibility aspect, we're, uh, looking at whether, uh, leader dog is adhering to accessibility standards and how it can best to do that. So we've been, um, discussing. Uh, some of the challenges that we've had in terms of, for example, website access, and we've been learning about all the great work that, uh, leader Dog's been doing to improve accessibility with an accessibility audit.
And, um, we, you know, talk about, um, When the Leader Dog is looking at implementing new programs and initiatives, what our input is on the accessibility of that. So for example, social media, different platforms are such a hot topic now. So we've been talking about that. And on the advocacy side, looking at the, um, opportunities that Leader Dog can, uh, Advocate for the community.
So we provided input on these business cards that are now included for all clients [00:12:00] that have just a one sentence guide. Dogs are guaranteed public access under the Americans with Disabilities Act, but then they have QR codes to find a lot more information. So they're very multimodal and simple and easy to use to educate, and of course, Very, very, uh, current topic is this, this topic of ride share denial advocacy, which we've been talking about and which we'll get to, uh, shortly.
Leslie: That was like a beautiful description of that committee and all the things that we've been talking about and discussing. So first of all, thank you for being a member of the committee. We have a lot of committees at Leader Dog and they're so important because, you know, while we're the experts in kind of our field, we, there are so many different topics and things that we want to cover and do our best at, and we need to bring in outside people.
So we have lots of people kind of in other businesses and things, sitting in different committees. We have clients sitting on committees, we have team members sitting on committees. So when we get together, Christina and I are both also on what we are calling the [00:13:00] AAA committee. Again, the one with accessibility, advocacy, and assistive technology.
So Christina and IA end those and we always leave so rejuvenated because it's just great discussions. You know, it's so good to hear what our clients think, what other, you know, people in the business world think and suggestions that they have. So we always have such a good time and feel. I. Encouraged and walk away with action items and things that we wanna look into a little bit further and things to do.
Um, but as you kind of led into one of the huge things that we've been discussing, because it's an issue across the board as far as guide dogs and service dogs go, is the, the ride share issues. Do you wanna explain a little bit about what's happening with Uber and Lyft and other ride shares? Absolutely.
Maria: So in the ideal world, uh, you would request your ride share and the driver would come pick you up and take you where you needed to go, and that would be that. But what has been happening quite often is that the drivers [00:14:00] refuse to take those who have guide and other service dogs in their vehicles, whether based on some kind of religious.
Uh, belief or not wanting to have a dog in their car or saying that they don't have to take pets because they haven't signed up for, uh, an Uber's case, an Uber Pet Service, and Uber and Lyft both do have policies that prohibit this discrimination. The drivers are. Being shown these policies during onboarding, but there's either been some kind of communication breakdown and just also a lack of desire to comply with that policy.
And so, uh, those of us with guide dogs and I have had quite a number of them, I've, I have had more good experiences than bad experiences, but I have had quite a number of these, uh, of these denials and they manifest in different ways. I've had. Uh, I like to. [00:15:00] Text drivers using the messaging feature of the app when they're about anywhere from three minutes to a minute out.
So after they've already been coming to me for a while, I like to tell them where I am, and then I have a guide dog and that will sometimes manifest in the driver canceling the ride within 30 seconds to a minute of my sending my text. So it's pretty obvious why they've canceled the ride. I've also had it manifest as have others in drivers ignoring the text or not knowing the text, or because a rider's not required to give advanced notice of a guide dog, the driver comes, sees the dog, and either argues with or simply pulls away.
And I've also heard of instances where, uh, riders have, uh, attempted to open the door to get in and the driver has pulled away. And so obviously that. Is an opening to potential injury. So this has been a very serious issue that has been going on for years that the Rideshare companies are quite aware of.
So, Marie,
Timothy: if this [00:16:00] incident happens for a client or anyone else, what should they do? How should they go about reporting this?
Maria: Yes. So the two key words here are to document and to file. And so first, in terms of documenting, you want to do this in order to have the strongest case possible. So for example, taking screenshots when you have.
Booked the ride and when it's coming to you so that you can show that the driver's been coming. They, the companies should have all of this information on their end, but again, you have a stronger case. If there's an issue, you may wish to, again, use that messaging feature like I mentioned previously. You don't have to, but again, stronger evidence if they've been coming to you for five minutes.
Then you send the message and they cancel the ride a minute later. I can't think of any other valid reason why they would cancel the ride. Uh, taking uh, an audio, uh, a video recording of the pickup to capture any kind of denial, you know, making notes of. Any [00:17:00] kind of points that a driver might try and use against you, like, oh, it was dark out, or it was, you know, raining and I couldn't see them, or some such, or, you know, where you were Use the, the light detector app.
A light detector app, um, available for your phone to, you know, be able to make notes about these types of things. So after you've documented you want to file complaints and you first want to start by filing a complaint with the actual rideshare companies, uh, both of them have options. For written filing of complaints within the apps, and both also have phone options available and after that, You will want to file, I would recommend a, an Americans with Disabilities Act or a d a complaint with the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice.
And that's a pretty basic, it asks for your, you know, who, when, what. How, where your basic kind of information, um, and you might actually have some additional [00:18:00] avenues for filing a complaint based on the situation. Like if you're taking an Uber or Lyft via a contract with another provider, like if the trip involves, for example, in an airport, you can also file a complaint with.
The, uh, airport, if you are, uh, taking it through Paratransit, for example, or even if you're not just to, you know, make some more noise, you, uh, can file a complaint with your, uh, local Civil Rights Commission or again, with paratransit, uh, file with the Federal Transit Administration of the Department of Transportation.
As you can tell, this is a bit of an a. Alphabet soup here and you know, there, there are more options if you can demonstrate a financial loss below $10,000, you can go to small claims court. So there's a lot you can do and I've learned about all of this and more from a guide Dog Users Inc. Call that was held in.
May called stranded at the curb, and I would very much suggest that you listen [00:19:00] to that for some other, uh, in other recommendations on what you can do. Uh, if you go to gdu.org, right on our homepage, there's a heading that says, tired of being left out in the dust, in the rain in the dark by the side of the road.
And it talks about. Not tolerating discrimination from drivers. And there's a link there that says, find out how to file your complaint. And there's some written information and then there's also the link to that community call, which has just been a wealth of information. So there's a lot you can do. Um, I know this sounds exhausting, just taking a step back here.
You know, you just wanna take your ride and not think about these things. And it's frustrating. And I, I understand. And you don't have to, you know, do it right there. That moment after it happens. But, you know, we have to, if we want to see things change, we have to be as, as Gandhi said, we have to be the change that we want to see in the world.
So I would really, really encourage people to com file complaints and, you know, [00:20:00] make some noise. And we need to get this out there. We need to get data out there, especially with the Department of Justice that this is happening. That is
Christina: great. I mean, so much information there that you just provided for anyone listening, um, things that I wouldn't have thought of as well.
Um, kind of going off of this, Maria, how accessible are these apps, um, these rideshare apps? Are they accessible enough that someone knows that the driver is like about to approach or you know, is it kind of. It tells you a time and then you kind of know on the time and then, you know, if they never show up, I guess, how accessible are these apps, um, for the user?
I.
Maria: So overall, yes, they are accessible. To step back for from your question for a bit, in terms of the overall experience, um, while they are accessible, it is a bit, can be a bit of a moving target sometimes with, uh, updates. For example, in, in the process of booking a ride. Uh, [00:21:00] last Wednesday, at least when I, when I attempted to book a ride, uh, and I was getting cancellations because of my guide dog, the scenario I described earlier and a bus happened to come that I could take, I was at a bus stop and so I took the bus and I went to try and cancel my ride and I could not click with voiceover on the ride the tail screen to cancel the ride.
So there can be some accessibility issues, but yes, overall it is quite an accessible experience. And to speak to. Your question, when the driver is approaching, you do get a real time announcement in terms of minutes, so you'll be told, you know, riders eight minutes away, seven minutes away, et cetera. There is a map, which currently is not accessible, but you do receive that timing information so you can know when that driver is, you know, two, three minutes out if you would like to send that message.
Uh, the messaging feature is accessible, the calling. You are told the driver's name and their vehicle and the license [00:22:00] plate. So overall, yes, they are quite accessible. But just be aware that sometimes, uh, you know, updates can unfortunately, like with so many apps, sometimes, you know, break certain features.
But overall, yes, they do work quite well.
Leslie: And Timothy, have you experienced anything like this before? Have you ever been, uh, kinda denied a ride or left somewhere? I
Timothy: have been denied. Uh, I do it a little bit different than what she suggested. The only thing I do differently is, uh, I give them the notice of me having a guide dog two minutes after I book it and I take a screenshot.
That way, if it, that way, if it gets canceled, I still have time. Mm-hmm. Okay. To get where I need to go. And that's the only thing I do different than what she does. So it it, I'm glad she's. So what she does, 'cause it's similar exactly what I do, but yes, I've been denied a couple of times.
Leslie: Yes. You know, and this is something that we're hearing from so many people is that they're actually, you know, it's making an impact on people when they're deciding whether or not [00:23:00] they want to get a guide dog or a service dog or get a replacement guide dog.
You know, some people are saying that it's just too difficult for rideshare if you use rideshare all the time and you're constantly being denied or being stranded somewhere. Maybe that is going to impact the decision to get a service dog. So it is a huge concern for us at Leader Dog as well as all of the other guide dog organizations across the United States and Canada and everywhere kind of dealing with this, which is why it's such an important topic for us.
We have met with Uber. We are trying to continue conversations to figure out the best thing that we can do. So Maria, I absolutely appreciate you talking about, uh, document and file because we have to continue to make a fuss about it, right? Yeah. Uh, what is it? Squeaky wheel. Or early bird gets, what's the squeaky trees?
Maria: Gets the wheel something? What is it?
Leslie: Something about the squeaky wheel gets the something, you
Maria: know. Nice Try. Whatever it is.
Leslie: Whatever it is. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to be the squeaky wheel. We need to make much noise. Yeah. [00:24:00] Somebody's gonna have to Google this later. We'll get comments and emails about how we did it, how I did it
Christina: wrong.
Yeah. But if you think about it too, you know, rideshare is such a way of the world right now because. You know, if you don't live in a big city where there's cabs and taxis everywhere, you know, uh, you have a rideshare basically in every, you know, small town or big city. I. So, oh, and I think Leslie just looked s it up.
Leslie: Squeaky wheel. There's squeaky wheel gets the grease or squeaky wheel gets the oil. Either way, guys, the point is, you know, we're just the squeaky wheel. We need to continue making moves. So I think this is just a really important topic and as you mentioned, can you tell us a little bit more about Guide Dog Users Inc.
'cause I do think that's a fantastic resource.
Maria: Yes, so Guide Dog Users Inc. Is an affiliate of the American Council of the Blind, which is one of the consumer blindness, uh, advocacy organizations in the US And, uh, G D I has been around since. I believe it's been [00:25:00] since 1972 and really providing the information and the peer support and advocacy resources, uh, for the Guide Dog community.
So, um, whether we have a, a chat list and a Facebook group for people to be able to share information, we've held a community calls on, as I mentioned, the ride share, uh, but also the new, uh, forms for air travel when those began, uh, We also, uh, at, at the conventions, uh, we have, uh, programs that we hold on the Guide Dog Lifestyle.
Uh, for example, at this past convention, we had, uh, updates from various guide dog schools. We did a session on, uh, eye health in guide dogs and about, uh, Guide dog. Uh, actually a leader dog, Alyssa Otis, who's been on this podcast, did a fabulous presentation on the matching process. Um, so we really serve to be a resource of support and [00:26:00] information, uh, and advocacy, uh, for the community.
We monitor, uh, you know, legislation that's up and coming that could have an impact. We as. Assist people. Our advocacy com uh, committee provides guidance, uh, for people when they've had some kind of difficulties, um, in, uh, in traveling with their guide dogs. Um, for example, we also have recently had information on, uh, people encountering uncontrolled, uh, dogs in stores or, um, We have a d for members.
We have a disaster assistance program where we're able to provide a stipend, uh, due to a, a funding source for, uh, guide dog Essentials if someone's facing something like a hurricane or a fire or just any of these events that are becoming, you know, much more, uh, common, unfortunately. And so, um, I would. I would definitely encourage, uh, anyone who is interested to learn more and to join us.
We also have a few affiliates in several states, um, and then also, [00:27:00] uh, the, the national organization of course, as well. And, uh, the website for that for Guide Dog Users, Inc. Specifically is g d i.org.
Leslie: Awesome. Thank you so much Maria, and thank you for joining us today. I think we could continue to talk for another half hour or hour with all the resources and great knowledge and experience that you've shared, so thank you for being a part of today's podcast.
Maria: Thanks so much for having me. All
Leslie: right, and thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Christina Hoeppner and Timothy cuo. We hope you enjoyed hearing from Maria and all of the wonderful resources she shared. Please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Yes.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying for our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit [00:28:00] subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.