Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Haskins in Timothy Kuo. We are now finally in season five. Yay. We, we
Leslie: got here. Who knew? Right?
Christina: How about that? I know. We took some time off. We played some of our favorite episodes.
It was great. I mean, we were working still so we didn't really take time off. But yeah,
Leslie: we took a little break to To regroup, right? Yes. And gather ourselves. Get a nice lineup for season five. We're super pumped. Yes. And it's good to do the
Timothy: replay of the old ones cuz some people may not hurt all of them, so.
Christina: Yeah. Right. That's really interesting. Yeah. And, um, you know, just, I know we were talking earlier off of the podcast about some funny stories this summer. Um, I guess I'll start with mine. Yeah. Um, I, my, my mom, if she listens to this, she's not gonna be a little happy with me, but, [00:01:00] um, I took her to one of my workout classes and it was like a lot of leg work.
And she's not used to that. She does like a lot of full body and it was like kind of strictly legs and she couldn't walk like in the last next couple days. And I kept getting texts like, why? Why did you do this? So, you know,
Timothy: Christina, you supposed to be nicer on your mother than that. I
Christina: swear. I
Leslie: know it's not
Christina: so I don't know if she'll ever come back.
Uh, Johnny's been to that workout class with me before and he also was not very happy with me, but he, he's gone twice now.
Leslie: Um, he might Sounds like a reoccurring theme here. Maybe we should stop. I'm not gonna
Justin: work out. No, it's Christina. No. That pain is the sign of positive results to
Leslie: come. Yes. Yes.
Timothy: Well, speaking of pain, I went the other day to the, uh, hospital.
I had a little problem and they told me after the doctor gave me, they said, go home, take some ibuprofen. [00:02:00] And I'm telling all these people, you need to start labeling your own medication cuz uh, my wife saying she gave me some ibuprofen and I was, had a flight the next day. And, I wanted to stay up all day so I can sleep at night.
And she handed me three ibuprofen and 10 minutes later to discovered they were PM one oh.
Justin: And this is like eight in the morning. So I fought that
Timothy: all day long not to go to sleep. And so I guess, uh, people who are. Visually impaired. Like we, we need to have a backup plan to check these bottles to make sure we're getting the right medication.
Leslie: Listen, that can happen to anybody because my husband and I also did that, I remember a couple years ago Oh yeah. He ran into the gas station to get some Tylenol for us. We had headaches and uh, yeah, we didn't realize. Till hours later, we were like, why are we so tired? Like, we're barely functioning and it was the same situation.
So it can happen to anyone. So don't blame your wife.
Timothy: I know. Well, remember last year I took the sleeping pills before I spoke at the, uh, the, uh, [00:03:00] last year at the Liter Dogs for one of the, uh, the, uh, celebration ceremony.
Leslie: Oh my goodness. Listen, oh yeah. I was there. Yes, you were there. You still did great. You nailed it.
Perfect. Well, it's been clearly an interesting summer for everybody, so good news that we're getting right back into the swing of things here with season five. Um, and we're super excited because today's guest is here to share his experiences of being a para athlete and his journey with blindness. Yes.
Justin Sutton
Christina: is a national champion, para cyclist in Paralympic hopeful. He was our keynote speaker for Dinner in the Dark and has Leader Dog Pharaoh.
Timothy: Justin, I saw your dinner in the dark. It was absolutely great, and we thank you for doing that. So do you mind telling us a little bit about, about your journey and
Justin: blindness?
Absolutely. Morning, everyone. Uh, my name is Justin Sutton. I'm in Orlando slash Winter Park, Florida Natives. Uh, I'm also a military vet, [00:04:00] um, an Army vet. Um, I started losing my sight in 2013. Um, it was very sudden it was almost a stop sign for me. Um, once I started, uh, obtaining and utilizing the resources that I found were available after entry into the low vision community, it was a game changer for, for me, um, initially.
You're an adult in kindergarten all over again, you're pretty much relearning life. Yeah. Um, I did all of my blind rehab at the, um, through the va. Mm-hmm. Um, I either went to, uh, west Palm Beach or to Augusta in there. I, I literally, Adaptively relearn life from orientation and mobility, living skills, manual skills [00:05:00] technology, and also adaptive sports.
Um, recreational therapy is mandatory. Uh, during the inpatient process, um, I actually attended my first camp at the Olympic Training Center after obtaining Pharaoh in 2018. But I'll start Pharaoh's, actually my second guide dog, um, with you guys. My first guy dog was Gizmo. Okay. And. I was at, uh, blind Rehab and the op coordinator of operations came down, was doing a presentation for the va, and at the time my chemo drugs had been changed, so I was down and I wasn't in attendance, but they brought the leader dog information to me and.
Well, my area, the VA usually uses, [00:06:00] um, a Southeastern Guide Dog school, but we do have veterans preference. Um, after doing my own research, after seeing the Lu Dog was in the top three guide dog schools in the country, this is a school for me. And my first thing was how am I gonna do this because, The VA's not gonna pay.
Um, immediately I apply, I'm connected to the Lions Club, and within a few months I'm in Rochester Hills. Um, you're apprehensive, you're wondering what's going on, what's gonna happen. This is a huge step in the next stage of your life. And I was so happy that I made the choice to attend Leader Dog. Um, [00:07:00] I get there, I see the facility and it's crazy.
Uh, the staff, you guys just the work that you guys are doing?
Leslie: Yeah. So you mentioned Gizmo. So you came for Gizmo and then now you have Pharaoh. Do you wanna walk us through a little bit of how that worked? Okay.
Justin: So Gizmo and I were a pair for about a year and a half, and unfortunately he had a heat stroke.
Mm-hmm. Um, they saved him. Oh man. It wa it was horrible. It was as if one of your children was terminally ill. Um, he was on dialysis for 14 days, had like five plasma transfusions. Hmm. I'm so sorry. That's, but he, he couldn't reside in a warm weather climate anymore. Yeah. So it was actually really nice that the coordinator of the puppy raising program ad leader dog actually adopted him.
Aw. But he went to a really good home that was still in the leader dog family, [00:08:00] and he is completely rocking out living his best dog life
Leslie: right now. Yay. Oh good. That's so good to hear.
Justin: So that was October of 17, um, when they sent the Phillips down to pick him up. Um, March of 2018, um, at the campus for the second time, and this is when I acquired Pharaoh.
Um, uh, I had just been introduced to Adaptive Force at Blind Rehab at the same time. Um, I get this time, I'm not as apprehensive. I know the work that you guys put out, the quality of dogs, but I'm just enamored at the fact that I didn't have to wait as long as expected to get back into class. Um, the only thing is the weather.
Christina: You're coming from [00:09:00] Florida to Michigan.
Justin: Yeah, that's the big, that's huge.
Timothy: Yeah. So Justin, somebody who's, oh, okay, go ahead. Go ahead now. Uh, so somebody who's visually impaired like yourself, how do they get into cycling?
Justin: Okay. So originally the question is, what were you into previously before your society loss?
And by far I'm a lot younger than most of the veterans in the program, so most of the veterans, they golf, they travel, they fish, they hike. So those are the things that they want to get back to. For me, I'm a little more high functioning than that, and. I was pretty active prior to losing my sight. Um, they asked me if I'd be introduced, I'm interested in attending a cycling camp at an adaptive cycling camp at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.[00:10:00]
And what could, would not want to go to the Olympic Training Center regardless of what it's for. And that's something that I, I've. Just thought about from childhood, from track and field to swimming, archer, whatever. It's the Olympics. Everybody watches the Olympics. So I jumped at the chance just, just to go.
Um, I didn't really think that that would be a catalyst into where I am now, but at the end of those of the session, They're like, Hey Mr. Sutton, you know, if you put some time and energy into this, you can really be something in the sport. At first I was like, eh, and they're like, no, really. So I came home, I got a coach.
Um, I trained, my first race was February of 2019 and I was literally destroyed [00:11:00] Cannon last in every race and. I wasn't disheartened, I actually was motivated. I was pretty much emerged into something that I was apprehensive about and it became something else that. Personally, I overcame a lot of internal tangibles that were affected, but physically and mentally, I obtained something else that gave me purpose.
Um, Ferrell takes me everywhere. So literally I left Litter Dog in March. Anne Pharaoh took me to Colorado Springs, April. Wow,
Leslie: that's a big first trip. That's
Justin: fast. And for me, just coming from school, getting him acclimated at home. Mm-hmm. And, and [00:12:00] immediately leaving, you know, I, I really didn't know how it was gonna go.
And he did amazing, you know, from commuting through the airport, finding all of the essentials, escalators doors, keeping me safe while we're commuting out and about. And then just seeing his interactions with the other guy dogs. It just, it's more confirmation that I made the right choice to attend Leader
Leslie: Dog.
Yeah, that's, that's incredible. And what a big first event for you in Pharaoh, but it sounds like it went fabulously. Where does Pharaoh go? So when you're doing all of these races, obviously he can't be with you. Um, so what is his plan during that?
Justin: Okay, so during a race time, we all have a pit like nascar,
Leslie: pretty much.
Okay. You got a
Justin: pit crew.
Leslie: I know nascar.[00:13:00]
Justin: So Pharaoh is the team chief? Yes. Um, so it's in my pit, we'll set up. Um, and literally sometimes I don't even have to time him down. He knows once, once he's familiar with his area, um, when we, when we go to Spade on the track, he stays in the pit. He literally watches us on the bike going around the tracks.
He knows exactly. He knows exactly where I am at all times. Yeah, but so even, even though he's not working, he's still making sure, where's my guy? Is he okay? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. And as, as soon as I come off of the track, he hops up and he's waiting. He's like, okay, do you need me? Where are we going?
Leslie: That's incredible.
Dogs are just sometimes so intuitive and it's crazy that match. I feel like we talk about that all the time, but, It's just those guide dog mobility instructors, truly knowing what dog's gonna fit best in your life. Yeah. And, [00:14:00] and all the activities that you're doing. I know it
Christina: literally, just like, I have chills, it gives me chills when people talk about how like, the match is so perfect.
Oh,
Justin: the pairing process that you guys do is phenomen. I know. Okay. So let me tell you, I'm, I'm not sure if you guys know the step by step process of it. So us as attendees, prior to attending, you have to submit a 15 minute video. After completing a certified orientation and mobility course, so you have to be able to maneuver and get around with your blind cane initially, and you, you show on this video all, all the different types of commute.
Whether it's sidewalk travel intersections, crossing highways, uh, country travel on roads with no sidewalk, escalator, stairs, elevator, everything of the such, and it's from all views, front side view and rear. And they literally match your gate and stride [00:15:00] to the tentative pick that they have for you. And then when you actually get to the property, The first three days is almost like a temperament assessment, so they want to make sure that the ones that they have as the tentative picks for you temperament and personality wise are gonna fit as well, not just the stride and gate of your of your walk.
So the pairing is more intuitive as well.
Leslie: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to hear, you know, the guy dog mobility instructors, sometimes, like you said, they have maybe one or two dogs in mind that they think are gonna be a good fit. And then they spend those first couple days with, you know, our clients and get to know them a li little, little bit more personally.
And then sometimes they're just like, oh no, this dog is definitely not a, it's for sure this one. Yeah. And they just kind of know. Mm-hmm. And there's so much experience and kind of, I just feel like a little bit of gut instinct there. That's so cool.
Christina: The matchmaking then happens. It's crazy.
Leslie: So Pharaoh and you, you guys have been working together [00:16:00] now for a few years.
And so two, we saw the dinner in the dark video. If anybody hasn't checked that out, please check that out. Where Justin did a fabulous job at our biggest fundraiser of the year, uh, dinner in the Dark, and spoke and shared about your relationship with Pharaoh. And in the videos we can see you practice cycling on your stationary bike and Pharaoh kind of just like right next to you again, kind of knowing his, his place.
Um, it's fantastic. And so you're training Reg, I mean, daily for this. Five days a
Justin: week. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes six. Yeah. Um, right now I'm in a training block leading up to, uh, US nationals. Okay. In July, so July 5th, 39. Um, I'll be back out here in, um, California at Dignity Hill, defending the title. Yeah. Um, he takes me to the gym every day.
Um, So, so I u I utilize Planet Fitness. This out of [00:17:00] convenience. Yeah. Cause I travel a lot and they're everywhere. Yeah, they are. So, Most of them, the setup is similar and he knows what machines I use, like that routing and patterning is so serious. Like you, you really don't know how much of a sponge these dogs are.
Even outside of your verbal commands. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like they just remember. So I'll go into the gym initially my first time and I'll ask one of the staff members to show me around, show me the machines that I need, um, where the different freeways are, and li literally I'll start at one, at one spot every time.
Hop out of the Uber scanning, he takes me to that same spot. Every day. That's amazing. He go through the gym. He says that he sits next to the machine. He's actually the conversation [00:18:00] starter. Um, yeah. So the first of all, they're amazed, uh, at how poised and wellbe behaved he is in comparison to the service animals that they've seen.
And that's just an testament to the quality of dogs that you guys put out. Um, then it's, they just wanna watch 'em work. You know? Mm-hmm. And then the next question is, well, what do you do? Like, I've seen you in here every day that I'm here, and the conversation, uh, just snowballs from there. Um, he takes me everywhere.
Like he is literally the equivalent of the coolest hearing aids, uh, deaf person or hearing impaired person could ever have. Literally, Pharaoh is a dog version of that. Yeah. He goes everywhere with me.
Leslie: Yes. And we were able to meet him when you were here in March for dinner In the dark. Yes. Can you tell us a little bit [00:19:00] about what that event was like, uh, on your end from your perspective?
Justin: It was such an amazing experience. Um, being able to meet the people that support and contribute. On the front end and are actually just true advocates of Leader Dog, being able to share with them and just giving them a little bit of insight to me is beyond words, um, the feeling of gratitude and appreciation.
It's sort of humbling. Uh, Just knowing that you can have such an effect on people and be a part of raising so much money to help other people that are in the same position. Um, the different vendors, um, [00:20:00] the setup, the different stations that they had for attendees, like that was really cool. Um, letting them be able to walk with the dog.
Blindfolded actually giving them that experience like that was one of the highlights for me. Yeah, because people always wonder what it's like. Mm-hmm. And that's one of the hardest things to explain because all of our. Levels of visual acuity are different? Yes, our disorders are different. You know, we might be legally blind, completely blind.
Uh, some of us might have degenerative diseases, but to see the interest of the people, well, you know, a lot of people donate to something just because it's a good cause. But to see people give their time actual actually have genuine interest. And care like, like that's [00:21:00] something that you don't see on the client's side.
Yeah. And you know, like you, you're, you're living your life, but you don't get to see on the front end. What facilitates it and the effect that it actually has on the people that support
Christina: you. Yeah. And it was so great to have you there. That was my first official dinner in the dark. Cause the previous year was virtual.
But um, you know, just for anyone who doesn't know, like our services are comp. Are free for all of our clients. So when Timothy came, when Justin came, I mean they didn't pay a dime. So that is our biggest fundraiser over the year and it was so cool to see. And Justin, you touched so many people with your story.
I remember I was staying in the back of the room cause I was doing, you know, it was some social media stuff and I just saw people wiping their eye. I mean, just like, Feeling so impacted by you. So you did such an amazing job of telling your story and it
Leslie: was so cool to see. Oh, thank you, thank you. That event is so neat because [00:22:00] it is a great opportunity.
Of course, our main goal is raising money and, and being able to provide these free services, but it's also an opportunity, like you were saying, to educate and advocate. So we do take advantage of people's time there to provide those blindfold walks with both a cane and a guide dog to, you know, build some understanding, build some empathy, and.
Really capture for all of our donors and volunteers who are there, what this means, you know, what Leader Dog means to everybody and our clients and the impact it's having on their lives. So it truly is a wonderful event and I feel like we're kind of here with celebrities, as you and Timothy both have been kind of that keynote or um, featured client for dinner in the dark.
So, Thank you to both of you, Timothy. Any any questions on your end? Because you kind of experienced it a little bit differently doing the virtual ones, but Yeah,
Timothy: virtual is a whole lot different than what he did. Um, I will tell you that when I go out to do some speaking engagements, the, uh, governors of these lions, they talk about how great it is to test out these dogs [00:23:00] blindfolded, how impactful that is, and that gives them the chance to feel what it's like to be you and I, Justin, and, and that really opens up their.
Their hearts and their minds, and they go back and tell all their, their fellow lines at this. And it just, it just, I impact, it's impactful on them. And, and I'm glad that Leader Dog gives them that chance when they do the, the, uh,
dinner
Justin: in the dark. Oh, absolutely. I'm just happy to be a part of paying it forward.
It's different when, when you're solely a receiver. Right. Now that like at the stage that I'm in, I actually have a platform I can reach more people than my regular personal life could. Mm-hmm. All of the things that Leader Dog has done for me and all of the good people that support and advocate for Leader Dog, it would just be wrong for me not to pay it forward.
Like that's why I started the foundation. Like if I could just be a fraction. Of help to someone in [00:24:00] the same position that Leader Dog was for me, I am completely satisfied.
Leslie: That's amazing and we appreciate everybody, uh, and both of you especially for sharing your messages and continuing to support Leader Dog.
What's incredible is like, so of course we do have marketing strategies and we do so much to put out what Leader Dog does and how to, you know, receive our services. But one of our biggest worms is just word of mouth. It is actually, you know, clients such as yourselves going out there and sharing your experience and talking to other people who are blind or visually impaired because it's, that's the biggest way, and I talk about all the time too, I do a lot of community presentations or agency pre.
Presentations and stuff, but almost after every time that I'm speaking, somebody will come up to me afterwards and tell me a personal story of somebody they know who's blind or visually impaired, that they're excited to share this information with. So it's incredible what those little moments do.
Justin: Yes, absolutely.
Timothy, if I might ask, um, what's your, what's your, uh, [00:25:00] visual condition? Uh, I have
Timothy: retinitis, ptosis. I have about 2% in my right eye, and that's, uh, just
Justin: deteriorat.
Timothy: Yes, sir. Um, on behalf of me and Christina and, and, and Leslie who also wanna thank you for your service, for our, our country Absolut. Absolutely.
So we appreciate you, uh,
Justin: giving what you did there. If I could, I'd do it again. And so
Leslie: I know you talked a little bit too, um, about your vision l listed that it was pretty quick. Do you mind explaining a little bit more about that? Oh,
Justin: okay. It's not a touchy subject anymore, like INI initially, you know, it's, it's, it's sensitive because everything is new.
Um, so I have a super rare autoimmune disorder, um, by the name of Birdshot Retina Carpathy. The identifier is HLA a 29 positive. Um, [00:26:00] I, I literally didn't fit the, the demographic for my diagnosis. Um, but it also brought a lot of insight into genealogy of my family. Um hmm. So, My eye disorder is a Northern European genetic trait that usually affects, uh, middle-aged white women in between 50 and 70.
At the time, I was a 34 year old. Young black male. Yeah. So the identifiers weren't there. Um, until I did molecular genome testing, that's when I found out. So I have to go to the historians on both sides of my family. Mm-hmm. Uh, do do the lineage and then come to find out my dad's great, great grandmother was from Holland.
And that's the only person in the family that we have from Northern Europe. [00:27:00] So I learned a lot about myself and I actually got some resolve from an actual diagnosis. Yeah. So for about a year, it was almost like the medical version of Penit till on a donkey. You know, you're treated for, you're treated for everything until everything is ruled out.
Yeah. Um, It was rough. Um, I started chemotherapy in 2014, uh, pretty much to make my body stop fighting myself. Mm-hmm. Stop fighting itself, uh, just to say the sight in my eyes. By the end of 2014, my left eye was trash. Um, right now my left eye is light, dark, and color perception. And I have about 35 to 40% central left on my right eye.
Wow. Um, 2015, um, when my right eye started showing the same effects as the left and dig aggressively, it is [00:28:00] just been a journey. Um, I've learned everything that I've needed to learn to sustain life. Um, Just through blind rehab and obtaining my, just that profound level of independence again, that. My focus now isn't really on my site.
You know, if my site goes completely, I'm well-equipped. Mm-hmm. I have Pharaoh, you know, I learn brail. I know how to get around any type of adaptive skill I, I I, I need, I can utilize and if I don't know it, I can request to be taught. Um, that's fantastic. Um, It's just new. Um, uh, absolutely. It was a stop sign initially, but it just became a speed bump.
You know, some speed bumps are larger than others.
Leslie: Yeah, I, I think that's incredible. I'm pointing at Christina cuz I love that [00:29:00] almost as like a title idea. I think that's just a great message. Right? You were saying it was a stop sign, it became a speed bump. Some speed bumps are bigger than others and what a great way to think about it.
But I think you guys are also, those
Justin: speed bumps represent our. Adversities
Leslie: in life. Yeah. And they're everywhere. Right. And they come out of nowhere. Sometimes you're not anticipating them. And I think you guys are such a good example too, like this can happen to anyone. Yeah, right. Sometimes people forget that, you know, just like that.
Yeah, just like that. You know, we've heard lots of stories where it's, there's no signs, there's no symptoms ahead of time, and then all of a sudden, boom, it's, it's there, it's happening. And I think, you know, we all just need to remember that and be appreciative and have a little bit more empathy and understanding.
And be aware of what's, what's available. Yeah, like it's incredible that you were able to receive services through the VA and it sounds like still can and will throughout your future, which is fantastic. And same thing, leader Dogs here for that too. We hope to serve people throughout their lifespan and it just getting the word out there that we're available and services are available.
Yeah. You know, we talk all the time [00:30:00] about when that does happen, Justin, like a lot of times that is the stop sign and that's where it ends because they don't know the other things are available or services are available. So I'm so glad that this was just a speed bump and that you're. Continuing on
Justin: Leaders Ag made it a speed for me.
Absolutely.
Christina: Great to hear. And having, you know, you on and Timothy, you know, you guys being so vulnerable with sharing your story, I, you're gonna help somebody and we're gonna reach somebody through this podcast. Hopefully, you know, that, you know, might not have known that there is so much light at the end of that tunnel.
Leslie: Well, we wanna thank you, Justin, for your time today. We really appreciate you sharing your story and your personal experiences. Thank you guys for having me. Yes, and thank you to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy cuo and Christina Hapner. We hope you enjoyed learning about all of Justin's journey, and please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
And
Christina: if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head [00:31:00] to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you'd like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcasts Stream.