CHristina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy. Timothy was telling us, we got a text the other day. He just got an award.
Leslie: A very big deal. Yes. Timothy, you have to tell us all about it.
Timothy: Well, the other night we were at our induction, uh, ceremony for our local lions club, uh, inducting our new officers and stuff like that.
And a new incoming district governor was there and she goes, well, we got a special event here we've gotta do. And I'm just sitting there. Okay. And, and all of a sudden she starts talking about some somebody and I'm looking around saying, who's getting this award? You know? And, um. And all of a sudden she calls me up and I'm going, what?
And, uh, it is, uh, somebody nominated me in the state of Georgia for our convention. And uh, I happened not to be at that convention 'cause I was on the road for Leader Dog up in Baltimore for doing an event for a. Uh, multi-district [00:01:00] 22 and somebody had accepted it for me down there and, uh, then they gave it to me the other night and it's for all my work I've done for Leader Dog and the podcast and all the, uh, traveling and fundraising and all that stuff.
And I, I, I got very emotional 'cause I don't think I deserve it. And, um, but I don't do this for any accolades. I do it because I know there's somebody out there that needs to hear about Leader Dog. So we can, you know. Uh, spread the word and, uh, because there's somebody out there like me that needs, needs it like I did 7, 8, 8, 8 years ago, and that's why I do it.
CHristina: We can just celebrate you then, since you won't celebrate yourself. And that's exactly why you deserve the award. Yes.
Leslie: Congratulations, Timothy. That's fantastic. And I'm so glad that people are recognizing all the work that you're doing.
Timothy: I was kind of blown away a little bit, but uh, my wife apparently knew about it about a month ahead, so they're trying to work.
I couldn't believe she didn't tell nobody. Listen, but yes, she was down there. I didn't tell buddy. Cheryl
Leslie: Good. Cheryl's good. Yeah.
Timothy: Also, uh, I, I was just [00:02:00] shocked and, and honored.
Leslie: That's amazing. Seriously, congratulations. That's very, very cool. What an honor.
CHristina: Yes. If I could put clapping on this podcast, I would.
Don't if I can sound
Leslie: effect.
CHristina: Yeah. Well Mark. Mark might be able to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Our producer. So Mark can add in some
Leslie: clapping. Cue clapping. Yes.
That's so exciting. Well, what an honor and so deserving. And so, um, what, now what, like, is there a plaque? Is there like Yeah. Oh yeah. A mantle that this will be going on. Well,
Timothy: it's, it's sitting on my, uh, my table next to me. It's a nice, clear plaque and you could see through it's translucent or wherever that word is.
Yeah, yeah. But you can read it and everything. I, uh. It's a nice little plaque. I've never got an award before, so I was blown away, you know? So, uh, uh, it was just, it was like I said, an honor and, and, and you got, you guys are part of it too, 'cause you're in the podcast. Yeah. And
Leslie: I'm pretty sure the award doesn't have our names.
No, it does not. [00:03:00] Pretty well. I can edge
Timothy: it in. I mean, I got, I got something I can edge
CHristina: it in, Liz, you know, do not ruin your award by putting our names on it.
Leslie: Yeah, no, you deserve it. You're the one out traveling and speaking on behalf of Leader Dog all the time and doing so many fundraising efforts. And because, like you said, right, because somebody else needs, uh, needs this too, right?
Like you're not the only person experiencing these things. You wanna help others and, and pay it forward. So it's fantastic.
Timothy: Yeah, that's true.
Leslie: Yes. So we're very proud of you, Timothy.
Timothy: Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Leslie: Awesome. Well, congratulations again. Um, but today we are excited. We are taking you behind the scenes at Leader Dogs for the Blind to explore the many things our canine care team does to take care of our dogs and training.
CHristina: Yes, we're so excited to welcome Megan Jones, manager of Canine Care and Welfare, and a Fear-Free certified Animal Welfare professional who has dedicated her career to utilizing science to advocate for animals. She worked [00:04:00] with Zoo Animals for most of her career before joining the team at Leader Dogs for the Blind in 2023.
Timothy: Megan, it's great to have you on the podcast. We've been looking forward to this. So how long have you been in this role for Leader? Do.
Megan: Yeah, it's great to be here. Um, I've been in my role for about two years now. Um, and I love every second of it, honestly. Um, since the day I arrived here, it's, it's a really special place.
Um, I'm honored to be a part of this community and I'm honored to be asked to be on the podcast today. I'm really excited.
CHristina: So, Megan, you started, you did most of your work with zoo animals. Mm-hmm. Now you're working with dogs. How, what was that transition like for you?
Megan: Yeah. You know, that's an interesting question I get asked a lot.
Um, I'll say with zoo animals, there was a bit of a challenge, right? Because, um, when thinking about animal welfare, you really have to think about how each individual species you're working with really interprets the world. Um, what do they need to be happy and fulfilled in their life? Um, and so going from a [00:05:00] zoo where we're working with hundreds of species, um, to working with dogs, you'd think would be.
Um, an easy transition. Yeah, we're working with one species here. Um, but what we'll get into a little bit later is that, um, you know, even that we're working with, with just dogs, they're all individuals. If you're a dog owner, if you're a guide dog user, if you're a puppy raiser, um, you know that each dog has a unique personality and different needs.
Um, and it's really about kind of listening to the individual. In front of you and uh, and I think that'll be a reoccurring theme for us today. Yes,
Leslie: absolutely. I have to know because every time we have somebody, which there are so many people that work here at Leader Dog that have worked in zoos before.
It's crazy. Yeah. But I guess it's not like a big leap. Right? Animal lovers. Or animal lovers. However, I always have to ask. What was the most interesting animal or species that you worked with? I remember Melissa Fletcher talked about, I can't even remember what the name of it was. It was like a spitting llama or something.
Alpa. Was it an alpaca? No, it wasn't weird. It was. Anyways, so [00:06:00] Megan, what is kind of like the most obscure animal or interesting animal you worked with? Oh,
Megan: that is such a difficult question, Leslie. I know, and we didn't prompt you that this is unprompted. I just, yeah, no, this is, this is totally unscripted here.
Obscure. You mentioned the word obscure. Um, I certainly have my favorites and my animals that I think are really interesting. But in terms of obscurity, um, I really enjoyed working with ant eaters. Interesting. They're kind of an animal that's not brought up a lot. No. Yeah. Um, but have really enjoyed some of their quirks.
A lot of people might know that ant eaters really love water. Oh. And so, um. I've had the unique experience of, uh, filling up some bubble baths for ant eaters to enjoy. Um, I, I like to say I really have the best job ever. Um, really trying to strive for what makes animals happy. Yeah. Um, and for some ant eaters in particular, it's bubble baths.
So fun fact of the day. So funny. And
Leslie: humans. And humans, yeah. So much in common with ant eaters. I didn't know. You wouldn't think? Yeah. [00:07:00]
Timothy: So Megan, uh, how'd you find out about this role at Leader Dog? Did you see a help wanted sign and, and what made you make the decision to, Hey, let's go to the guide dog field?
Megan: Yeah, yeah. No, that's a great question. I think, you know, I am, I'm a lifelong animal lover, like many people that work here, and I think one thing that I was missing when I was working in zoological settings was, you know, really helping people. That's something that's also really important to me. And so to be able to use my passion with animals to, to help people overall, you really can't get much better than that.
That's, that's the pinnacle of, of what I would want to reach in my career. And so that really, that really kind of drew me is. I have a career of, of helping animals, but people mean a lot to me too. And so I think the mission really, you know, meant a lot to me. And it's hard not to be drawn to a place like Leader Dogs for the Blind.
Yeah.
Leslie: Yeah. And that's such a big piece, right? Like not only making sure that our dogs are happy and healthy and getting what they need to stay mentally and physically stimulated, but [00:08:00] educating our team, right? We have so many. Team members and volunteers who interact with our dogs daily. So what has that been like to to spread your knowledge and share with others and see that excitement on their end too?
Megan: Yeah. I'm glad you asked. One of my favorite things about the role in particular, you know, my role on paper is enriching and thinking about the dogs' lives while they're on campus. But to me it expands so much further than that. You know, we think about. Puppies when they're first born. Puppies that get issued to clients.
Are dogs getting career changed into loving homes, but really thinking bigger picture outside of that. Teaching volunteers, teaching team members, clients, anyone that we interact with, it serves this larger purpose of creating a better world for animals outside of leader, dogs for the blind. So when we arm people with the knowledge of.
How to read their dog's behavior, how to advocate for their needs. What are the basic needs of dogs as a species, and how can we be as a society better [00:09:00] about being more empathetic and putting ourselves into the minds of a dog, I think is a, is a worthy cause overall, and it's something that, you know, even outside of later dogs is important to me.
You know, millions of people out there are pet owners. There's millions of dogs out there and millions of cats and, and animals who are all deserving of. Of a good life just as we are. And I think one of my favorite things about animal welfare is how much it ties into our daily lives. And so when I talk about animal welfare, I talk a lot about how some of the same principles apply to us as well and considering kind of our physical and mental wellbeing as well.
So it really all ties together for me.
Leslie: That's so cool. Yes. I love hearing all of that. So what kind of background do you have? Like what is animal welfare? Just, I mean, as a background, like is that a degree? Is that just like
Megan: Yeah,
Leslie: experience. Um,
Megan: no, that's, that's an interesting question. I, I kind of felt into it.
So I have a degree, really, my background is in wildlife, so I have a degree in, [00:10:00] um, wildlife conservation. Um, and then I went to school for zoo. And animal shelter management. So I've always kind of wanted to be a people leader, kind of really be a driving force behind, um, you know, advancing the care of animals.
And then, and then I found animal welfare. And so I spent over 10 years in animal care professionally. And the difference between animal care and animal welfare for me is. Really animal welfare is how an individual animal experiences the care that we can provide. And so, you know, we might think that, yes, my dog has high quality food, they're comfortable at home, um, they've got all their toys, but.
What is that individual's animal experience with the care that they receive? I think there are so many nuances in the way that we read animal behavior and animal welfare is, is very nuanced and incorporates the mental health of an animal too. So I just, I, I found, I found my way into animal welfare through zoos.
Really [00:11:00] thinking about animals that either were once wild or are just wild genetically, and how can we support them when they live in captivity. You know, that's a big topic in animal welfare right now. And so zoos are, are really what kind of got me started. And then I found, uh, service dogs and leader dogs for the blind and so many applications in terms of.
How our dogs, especially in their working careers, should be enriched and, and how do we keep them happy? Yeah. Um, when they have a job, it's hard to have a job and it's hard to be an adult in Yeah. In the world. Right? Oh, I feel that.
CHristina: I'm not a dog, but I feel it as a human. Um, so I find it so interesting. You had shared at one point maybe it was an all team of how many like minutes of enrichment our dogs get, and I found that.
Like mind blowing. Can you talk about kind of how you guys track that and what does enrichment mean for the dogs? Yeah,
Megan: that's a good question. I wish I'd come prepared with those numbers, but it's in the [00:12:00] millions. It's in the millions and millions of of minutes that our dogs are enrich here. And enrichment can mean so many different things.
Enrichment as a whole. I would say our experiences that we can give to our dogs, cats, and really ourselves to make sure that we have a positive overall life experience. So when you think about what makes dogs as a whole happy, you know, they're, they're very social animals and so providing them opportunities to socialize with their peers.
Dogs are domesticated as well, so inherently tied and can, are really good readers of people. And so social enrichment for dogs looks like. Playing with other dogs. It also looks like playing with us and spending time with us. Physical exercise is something that I know, Christina, you're, you're really passionate about.
It's good for the body, it's good to move. And so, uh, when our dogs aren't working, making sure that they have fun outlets to physically exercise are important. And we have all these jungle gyms. In the village is where the dogs live. We [00:13:00] have kitty pools. We have outdoor areas where they romp and play. Our dogs are Labrador retrievers.
They inherently love their food. And so thinking about, you know, how we curate positive experiences for them in terms of food, so mixing up their diet, it's more than just treats, right? It's digging into these, these natural behaviors that dogs have to forage and to really kind of work for their food. And so we vary how their diets are presented.
We have, you know, some of the more fun things that I like to talk about. We have bubble machines, um, novel experiences are, are great in particular for working dogs because our, our puppy raisers are so wonderful in terms of their role of experiencing or or curating experiences for their puppies to have confidence, going to new places, seeing new things.
We try and do that in the canine center as well. And you know, the more our dogs are confident with different things, the the happier they can be just [00:14:00] existing in the world as a dog, but also be a more confident guide for someone in the future.
Timothy: Megan, when I was there getting glacier about seven years ago, I noticed in the, uh, the puppy pens that they were playing classical music to calm the dogs down when they were little puppies.
Is that still going on now? And
Megan: Yes, absolutely. I'm so glad you asked that because one of my favorite things about the Canine Center, we had a team member who. Really took autonomy over, over this project to curate a playlist. We have a playlist going in the canine center of classical music. We have some smooth jazz going in there.
Um, we have brown noise, which is kind of like white noise for us, but something that's a little bit more applicable to animals. We also have novel sounds. Playing in the canine center as well. So occasionally you'll be talking to someone in the canine center and you'll hear spoons and forks clacking together, and you're like, I gotta spend more time together.
Yeah. Or, or you'll hear, um, like a lawnmower sound. It's, it's not overpowering. Yeah. But just in the distance. Or you'll hear, you know, a crowd of people talking. You turn around, oh, there's. There's not a tour here, [00:15:00] but, but we're, you know, kind of passively exposing our dogs to, to some of those sounds that they might hear over time in the canine center, coupled with, you know, your classical movement, your music, your, your smooth
CHristina: jazz, all all that kind of stuff.
Well, that is good to know. 'cause if I'm ever over there and hear those things right, and think I'm going crazy. I'm not.
Leslie: Yeah, well you could be
Megan: just kidding. It's funny spending so much time there too. I have some of the, the smooth jazz songs memorized as well, and so it's, it's uh, it's, it's pretty funny and they're on a rotating basis too, so our dogs are not hearing the same things every day, but to kind of just, you know, how we would listen to, to music in our free times.
There's lots of research out there that shows how beneficial it can be for both humans and animals. So I'm sure
CHristina: everybody in. Over there. It has all their favorite songs picked out. I'm sure that they're like, yes, this is my jam.
Megan: Absolutely. Yeah. I have been known to jam out to some of the music in the canine center on occasion.
Yeah. That is
Leslie: so funny. We need to have a playlist over here in the admin. Yeah, you're missing out. It's like a random lawnmower. We blow. Absolutely. Yeah. [00:16:00] Keep you on your toes. Right. We'll be recording the
CHristina: podcast and you'll just hear in the
Timothy: background.
CHristina: Um, so Megan. In your bio, we mentioned that you're Fear Free Certified.
What does that mean and what is it?
Megan: Yeah, so being Fear Free certified to me means making a personal and professional commitment to working with animals in a way that reduces fear, anxiety, and stress. You know, so for example, although we as pet owners or guide dog users as puppy raisers, always wanna handle our animals with kindness and respect, you know, it's, there are also some things that a dog might encounter in their daily life.
Nail trims are a big one that cause a lot of anxiety for dogs. And so when we notice our pets becoming. Anxious around some of the, the daily tasks that we have to do, really kind of going above and beyond to preserve a positive experience for them. You know, when animals have negative experiences that compound over time, those experiences start psychologically kind of getting worse and [00:17:00] worse.
And so, you know, we don't want our dogs to be uncomfortable and fearful of nail trims throughout their entire life, right? We wanna put the effort in to make sure that they have a positive experience. Um, that they have a trusting relationship with people to be able to do that. And really it's about prioritizing the dog or the animal in front of youth's comfort in that very moment.
So it certainly means a lot to me. Um, it certainly means a lot to the organization as well. We have people from our vet team, our puppy development team, our, our canine care and puppy care teams. You know, our, our Guide Dog Services teams, we have people all across the organization who are fear Free certified.
Um, and so really it just demonstrates to me the organization's commitment to making sure that our dogs are, are treated with respect and in a way that reduces any anxiety they might feel around, around some, some of those things.
Leslie: And what is that fear free training like? Like how big of a commitment is that to complete?
Megan: Yeah, so it is a yearly cycle where, um, you'll get re-certified. Okay. And [00:18:00] so, you know, it is a big commitment. There's a lot of educational pieces associated with, but I think more importantly to me is putting it in practice. Right. And so. I think when you work with dogs and animals, you're always gonna be presented with new challenges.
Mm-hmm. And so I think part of it is really just committing to this continual problem solving to make sure that, you know, if an animal gives you, you know, a behavior or. Or is, um, stressed with a procedure, um, that maybe you're not expecting, really taking some time to troubleshoot that and make them comfortable in the way that they need to be felt comfortable or made comfortable rather.
So it's a, it's a yearly commitment, but really in the bigger picture scheme of things, it's, it's really a lifelong commitment to advertise yourself as a fear free professional and commit to, um, you know, a way of handling animals That's. Know, in the, in the kindest way possible.
Leslie: And is that just specifically for dogs or is that for
Megan: Yeah, it's for all animals.
And so, yep. The principles [00:19:00] can be used for wild animals. There's fear free certification courses for horses, cats, livestock, but they also, I, I can't recommend the Fear Free website enough because there are options for even if, if certification is not something for you. They've got a, a website of resources that you can use to find, um, local vet clinics.
Let's say if you have a fearful dog, you can type in your zip code and look up fear free certified vet clinics or vet, uh, grooming professionals near you. That way you can have. Really a kind of a consistent team. Yeah. For your dog of people who are going to handle your animal in a way where they're kind of leading that interaction and supporting them in supporting them through that.
So I can't recommend Fear Free enough. It's something that means a lot to me. I take my personal pets to Fear Free, um, certified organizations, and I've been really happy with, with the way that we've been supported in that way. So
Leslie: that is awesome. I do really appreciate that about our organization, leader Dog, that we continue to educate [00:20:00] ourselves.
We continue to seek, you know, trainings and, and we never just get comfortable, right? Like everybody is constantly seeking more or trying to learn more or better the experience for both the humans and or the animals. And I think that's so great and I'm so glad that you encourage that amongst your team because you have quite a few now team members who are all fear free
Megan: certified.
Yes, absolutely. The, the learning never stops. We'll never be comfortable. Um, I feel like it's our, our ethical duty to always do better for the animals that are in our care. So I love your passion.
Leslie: I love hearing it. Right. 'cause that's like the other side of the world here. I'm always the cane, they make fun of me 'cause I'm all about the cane.
Right. But like you have the same exact passion. Yeah. We, for the animals, the niches. Right, right. And that's why we're successful. I like to think at least in our different roles. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but really come together in this very unique organization. Yeah. It's really cool. Absolutely. I think so too.
Timothy: So Megan, what happens? All right. Let's say you've got a dog that has a fear of getting her nails tripped. Um, what, what is the process? How do you alleviate that?
Megan: [00:21:00] Yeah, again, it depends on the individual dog and, and what they need to be successful, right? So a lot of our dogs are food motivated, so that could be something as simple as smearing some peanut butter on the wall to work on while they're getting their nails trimmed.
It could mean like doing one nail at a time. And given treats as you do each nail, it could mean doing one nail per day if that's the speed that they need you to go at. And so really, uh, you know, the concept of fear Free is just really listening to your dog and what they need in that moment. So I can't stress enough, having a good foundational knowledge of who your dog is as an individual, um, is so important to be able to tell what they need.
And I give my teams a lot of credit, right? Because I have a team of about. 30 with over a hundred dogs on campus, that's a lot of dogs to get to know. Yeah. And they do a really fantastic job at it. And so getting to know a dog's likes and dislikes, where is that [00:22:00] threshold for them to know where they're uncomfortable and where to stop is a huge piece.
And so really, Timothy, it depends on the dog, but those are just a, a, a couple of methods that you can start using to make them a little bit more comfortable with the experience overall.
Timothy: Well see the place I've been taking glacier, she gets her nails trimmed, but now they use that grinder thing. Yes. The Dremel.
And she doesn't, yeah, she doesn't like the Dremel hardly. So it's, it's been for the past two episodes, so I'm trying to figure out my way and, and that to do something for her.
Megan: Yeah. And that's something that you can consider too. So, um, you know, the Dremel, you get those nice rounded nails. But some dogs are scared of the noise.
Some dogs are, are uncomfortable with the sensation. So do you go back to clippers? Um, is that something that you request from your groomer? My dog, personally, we have, uh, what's called a, a scratch board. So it's a piece of plywood with sandpaper over it that I've trained her to kind of scratch her own nails on.
It's kind of like a dog nail file. [00:23:00] Yeah. And that is. What I call a transition from, from fear free handling to something called cooperative care, where we use positive reinforcement training where my dog is actually able to do her own nails. I am not holding her down. Wow. I'm not telling her to sit. I'm not telling her to do anything.
I. I whip out the nail board and she's just scratching her nails on it. It's something that she enjoys and she's actually participating on her own time because my dog too struggles with, with nail trims. And so we've found a way that works for us and that's something
CHristina: that we both enjoy. That is wonderful.
I have so many ideas now 'cause I can't do my own dog's, nails. Like if they go somewhere else and it's somebody else. They're great, but not with me. Yeah. I know your, I saw your eyes light up when mentioned the story. Yeah. I was like, Ooh. Yeah. But it sounds like your team has to have so much patience as well, because you really have to get to know those dogs and be patient and, you know, learning.
It's like, I mean, it sounds like. They each have like, you know, 10 to 12 kids together learn essentially. Yeah, no, [00:24:00] absolutely.
Megan: Absolutely. So one thing that we do for our dogs in the canine center, and I'm happy that you mentioned that, is our dogs are going through a lot of transition just that's just inherent in, in the work that we do.
Right. So, you know, they spend a little over a year with a puppy raiser before they come back. To my team. And then they, you know, spend four months with our team going through formal guide training and then they get issued to a client. And those are big transitions for dogs. And you know, I think that, again, I give my team a lot of credit for spending individual time with each dog.
We get information from puppy raisers. That's super important to us, learning how to support these dogs the best. And so one thing that we do to provide our dogs consistency in the midst of, of all this change is that each and what we call string of dogs, you can think of a string as kind of like a graduating class.
Mm-hmm. Um, they all go through training together and, and hopefully all graduate together, but. Each string of dogs has three dog care folks and then their, um, [00:25:00] guide dog services team with the instructors. Um, working with them all throughout training. And so really, my team really does have a, a little kind of family of dogs that they Yeah.
Um, you know, go through training with. Over the four months. And so that provides our dogs some consistency, but also gives my team time to, to really know them and build relationships with them. And gosh, it's, it's really, uh, really inspiring to see how much and how much of a bond they build
Leslie: with, with these folks over time.
And I'm always incredibly impressed with the communication that your team has to have, right? Because there are different shifts of people, and as you mentioned, the Guide Dog Services team coming in and going, and you're all observing and watching and wanting to make sure that dogs have the best care.
And I know you guys have, you have whiteboards, you have, you know, our serum database. You have all sorts of things, and then you're thinking about accessibility on top of it. Yeah. So you're making sure it's accessible for team members, for volunteers. Mm-hmm. Everybody. What is that like too, because I know that's an ever-changing process of communication.
Megan: Yeah, absolutely. I always say that working in canine care and puppy [00:26:00] care leader dogs for the blind, it's not your average animal care job. So to your point, Leslie, there are so many stakeholders involved with even one individual dog on campus. The vet team. Yeah. That dog's instructor, that dog's care team.
You know, we all have to be on the same page and communicate. So frequently because we're all inherently involved in, in this dog's journey, and so it's a lot of communication back and forth. My team will send daily updates on all of the dogs in our canine center, which I mentioned is easily over 100 at any one given time.
Wow. Um, we send two updates every day to all departments that have hands on dogs. Seeing how things are going, if there's any medical issues or behavioral issues that are popping up, things that are going well, things that maybe dogs might, might need, some extra support. So there's a lot of cross-departmental communication and we have very full email inboxes, but it's all worth it because, you know, in order for our dogs to receive the best care, we all need to be kind of on the [00:27:00] same page about what's going on with them day to day.
Leslie: That's incredible. Well, thank you so much, Megan, for joining us today, and thank you for what you do and what your team does to make this organization run smoothly and to make the experience better for all of the dogs and cat, I should say. Yes, yes, absolutely. Your team absolutely takes care of Taz over there, our Chief Feline Officer.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so thank you for everything. Yes, thank you
Megan: so much for having me. I've, I've really enjoyed our conversation and I'm, I'm so honored to be here and work for such a wonderful organization. Yeah. And. My role here in working with all of you means means the world to me. So that's wonderful.
Thank you.
Leslie: And thank you to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hubner. We hope you enjoyed learning about the care of our dogs. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
CHristina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget you can [00:28:00] reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.