Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the taking the lead podcast, where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hoeppner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins in Timothy Kuo. Always the thing that I've been working on, not me personally, working on, but waiting for all summer. Finally happen. My sister's wedding. I know we've been talking about it.
Leslie: It was a. It looked like a lot of fun. Christina showed me some photos this morning in a video. First of all, your sister looks absolutely stunning as do you. And the rest of the bridesmaids, it looked like it was so much fun and so beautiful. Yes. The DJ.
Christina: What's blessed. That's really what all matters, you know, is the dancing, did you get jiggy with it?
Leslie: Okay. And you know, last time or recently we learned about the new boyfriend, Johnny . Yeah. Oh yeah. So Johnny attended, how did that go?
Christina: Great. He, uh, drove my grandma and my grandma's best friend to the venue. So they were very appreciative of that, but I mean, they're kind of [00:01:00] wild. So Johnny had to deal.
You know, some of my fun grandma, family, you know, he had a blast. I think I hope if not, oh, well,
Leslie: if not hold that secret forever. Right? You better never tell you. Well, that's awesome. I'm so glad. And it went well. Everything's been great. So that's good. We're wishing that lots of years of happiness. Thanks.
Yes.
Christina: I will tell them Timothy though. We haven't talked to you in a minute because you were on. A
Leslie: cruise
Peter: again,
Timothy: a cruise. Yes. Yes. Uh, it was whirlwind. Uh, I just now recovered being back just a week because of the time change. It was like a four hour difference. So it's my I've had brain fog for a week, but I'm finally, finally getting out of that fog.
So it was a blast. Glacier did perfect job and, uh, all the stress that I had for her parking and all that stuff, she took those away the first day. the 4,200 people on a cruise [00:02:00] ship is a lot for her guide dog. So she was stressed a little bit, but she handled it like a tank and she did a good job. She did a good job.
Christina: That's great. You sent me that picture of you Cheryl and glacier. And you guys had coffees in your hand. Oh yes. And it looked like you were having the time of your life and you can see
Timothy: the debate. I had a hot one and she had a cold one. So we, we just can't get it. I'm telling you. She saw she she's she's.
Leslie: I feel like we need to do any, she's not weird. cold in the summer. I think we need to do a survey or something. Cuz I've talked to so many clients and they all kind of bring up the coffee debate, whether it's hot or ice coffee is preferred. I feel like we need to put like a survey online or something.
Yeah. It goes by the seasons. it goes by the seasons. I'm telling you, okay, how are we gonna do a survey with that? .
Christina: You have cold in the warm months and then you move on hot when it starts to get a little chilly in the
Leslie: morning. Oh my God. We're not getting into this again. We're doing it. We're doing ill stop.
listen. I'm glad you guys are both doing well and that you had a great trip and that you had a great [00:03:00] wedding. I'm just over here. I think surviving, nothing exciting going on. Uh, kids are in school, which is crazy. I think we're finally getting into a bit of a routine. I don't know about any other parents out there, but I feel like I have now got homework every night.
Like I've added a half hour of activities. Like I have to empty the backpacks and make the lunches and get the water bottles ready, plug in the iPad. Like, I didn't know. I was signing up for homework. That's stink. It really does. Do they get older? Wait until they get,
Timothy: they get. Then that'll go away and they can start having, taking care of themselves a little bit.
So until
Leslie: they get a little bit older, I'm looking forward to when they can get older and yeah. Do all things drive
Christina: themselves.
Leslie: maybe not battle. Let's slow that down of it, but like maybe ride the bus. That would be helpful. They could ride the bus. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Well, we're all here. We've all made it this far, which is great. So we'll get [00:04:00] going. We're super excited. Cuz today's guest is our first non-leader dog guest, meaning he is not a leader dog team member, nor has he been to leader, dog for services yet.
Somehow he has been involved with leader dog for so many years.
Christina: Yes. Peter tusk graduated from the university of Illinois at Chicago with a bachelor of arts degree in. Peter is currently the director of strategic partnerships for human wear. He travels throughout the us and Canada supporting teachers and students in presenting at state and national conferences.
Peter has also been published in closing the gap magazine and regularly creates written in video tutorials for a wide array of Humanware blindness products.
Timothy: Hi, Peter. Welcome to the podcast. I'm excited that you're here today. And, uh, is there any other tidbits that we need to know about your life and, and what caused your visual blindness?
Peter: So I would like to start by saying thank you very much for having me and, uh, I'm thrilled to be here. So it's a good, you [00:05:00] know, a good day. We are recording this on a Friday, which is always generally a good sign unless you have a loaded weekend. I dunno but I, uh, I will, I will settle the coffee debate debate.
Before I talk a little bit about myself. It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold, what really matters. Is if it doesn't have anything in it. So as long as it's black, it can be either west
Leslie: you're outta here. Get outta. This
Christina: is the base. I think you just started it up again.
Peter: Here we go. So, um, so on that note, uh, because I'm on my third or fourth cup of black coffee, I'm ready to roll.
Um, I am from Chicago. Um, I've grown up in Chicago, so I've, I've lived here my entire life. I live in the city. Uh, I am totally blind. And as, uh, as Christina mentioned, I'm the director of strategic partnerships for human wear. We make a wide variety of blindness and assistive, uh, technology products really skewed toward the visually impaired market.
So everything from braille devices to low vision devices, but where the leader dog. Kind of piece comes into [00:06:00] play is we have made and, and continue to make standalone GPS products, uh, for a, a long time. So I, we do a lot in that space. I am congenitally blind. I have Libras congenital AOSIS, which is a form of, of retinitis pigmentosa, but, uh, I've been blind since birth.
So I am. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a seasoned traveler. I know we'll get into that. I, I definitely float all over the United States and Canada and in different parts of, of, um, you know, lots of education, different parts of the country and around the world, um, for my job and also for fun. And, you know, I, I have a, I have a family and I'm just.
Chipping away at life and moving through it week by week. So I, uh, I definitely love the space that I work in. I have actually a degree in history as, as was put in that bio, which has nothing to do with working in blind.
Leslie: I, I actually found that very interesting.
Peter: It just goes to show, you know, you kind of never know where you'll end up and there's really nowhere.
I'd rather be, I absolutely love this space. Uh, it's a, it's a wonderful field and I really [00:07:00] enjoy being a part of it. So I'm really glad to be here and. A lot about kind of, you know, who I am, but also how all of this fits into play. I mean, leader dog is, is, you know, a big player in this space. And, you know, the, even just with this podcast, it's not focused on one, one topic or one piece, you know, of the puzzle, but certainly, um, we all have different ways to contribute.
So I'm glad to be here.
Leslie: Thank you. Thank you for joining us. We're super excited to have you as mentioned, you're our first kind of like non-leader dog guest, but also you still feel like such a leader, dog guest, because we've been working together for so many years.
Peter: We have, and you know, I was actually talking to Erica mm-hmm at leader dog a couple of weeks ago.
And she was reminding me that human wear has, has, you know, been, we've been doing the GPS product since the late nineties, but leader dog has been beta testing and working with us since 2000. Five. So, you know, the, the role that leader dog plays in helping develop these products is, is gigantic. I also, I will apologize because I'm sure you hear
Christina: Yeah.
Leslie: I
Christina: was like, there's a
Peter: [00:08:00] baby in the background. Yeah. I have an 18 month old. Who really, she has a lot to say as well. She does. Yes.
Christina: She wants to be on this podcast.
Peter: She does. I mean, and she's got about 12 words. I don't know what many of they're not very relevant. Like most of her words they don't really, you know, she's got words.
Okay, Uhhuh. Um, she's got, uh, baseball , you know, not really relevant. She may have something to say, uh, in here, so
Leslie: she's got something to contribute.
Peter: I love that. Exactly. But no, I've, I've been at human wear since two, 2015, and I've been, you know, working with, with leader dog on the trucker breeze and on other products for that long as well.
So kind of working with you guys in different ways, doing lots of joint presentations, uh, Leslie and I just presented. A conference over the summer and, uh, in St. Louis. So we, we definitely cross paths quite often. And I know, I see you around quite a bit as well at different shows and things. So I'm, I'm always floating in the air somewhere.
I
Leslie: know you are kind of a celebrity in the field. Like everybody knows Peter too of human wears. Sure. [00:09:00] Everybody I would argue. Yes .
Christina: Well, that is awesome. Sounds. A blast to always be traveling and sharing what you guys do and all of that. But, you know, we don't talk to many clients of ours. At least that I know that we're born blind.
So growing up, I'm just curious Peter, growing up, did you know any other kids that were, um, blind, you know, did you grow up with anybody else like
Peter: that? Yeah, so, so I'm very fortunate because I do live in a, in a massive city, you know, I'm and I grew up in the suburbs, so I have lived in the city itself for the last 15 years.
Um, but I grew up in the, in the suburbs of Chicago, which is a, a very, very large metropolitan area. So. When I was in school, I was fortunate enough and there aren't too many of these types of programs still around today, but I went through a resource program and what that was, you know, traditionally, um, a lot of students will go to, or, or have often gone to, especially starting around the [00:10:00] forties and fifties would go to their state's blind school.
So the school for the blind and a particular state, that model shifted in the seventies and, and into the early eighties. Uh, into a model where, you know, if possible districts would pool their resources and bring all the kind of, you know, kiddos in a certain area into one district. And that was what I had.
So I went through a, um, you know, a, a co-op if you will. And I was able to have a lot. Blind friends, but also I was in a mainstream environment in school. So I was in a regular ed program, um, with a resource room where materials could be provided for me. I had orientation and mobility. I had, you know, OT, PT, all of those things if needed.
And, and so certainly working off of an IEP, uh, you know, in individualized education plan. But, uh, it, so I was around a lot of blind. People, and then just being in Chicago as well, you know, there's such a large presence of, [00:11:00] you know, the, the various blindest organizations. So the ACB, the NFB, um, you know, a lot of organizations are here.
I worked at the Chicago lighthouse for the blind, so I've always kind of been in contact, but with that being said, I've been very fortunate because I I've, I've just, I've played music my whole life and have been all over the place. So I have lots of friends who, who I've had since I was a child who are not blind.
So it's kind of been the best of both worlds. And I'm very fortunate in that regard because I was able to cut my teeth in, in this sort of space. Um, and, and kind of never had the intention of working in the space as I said, but because I grew up around so much technology and, and was exposed to all of this sort of blindness, um, in addition to just myself being blind, I was able to.
You know, take advantage of that.
Leslie: That's so interesting. It sounds like you really had like the best of both worlds. Cause I know there's so many pros and cons to schools for the blind and then of course being mainstreamed, but you kind of had, it sounds like a little bit of both, which is amazing. It,
Peter: it was, and I think it, it.
There are absolutely pros and cons to both [00:12:00] mm-hmm and, and I think it really is individualized. I think you, you know, and for some, it is the only option, you know, a blind school may be the only option. It may be the absolute best option because of the resources that may or may not be available in a certain area, whether it's rural or not.
I, I travel all over the country and I certainly come across. Urban settings and rural settings or suburban settings where resources are very, very lackluster for blind kiddos and where the school for the blind is absolutely going to be the best option and vice versa. There are certainly times where I get into situations where all of the resources are available.
Um, you know, you have. This sort of, and it, and it, it doesn't matter where that state or city or county is on the political spectrum. It really is about how the resources may be pooled and what's available in that particular area. Um, and sometimes, you know, the, the keeping, the students and things in district, or in my case in a co-op can be extremely beneficial because they're not going away from home.
So again, it really is, uh, I was very for. And I'm a, in any unique situation because of where I grew up. [00:13:00] And that's also probably why I'm able to be so independent because I grew up around not only so many types of people, but also around a, a wonderful transportation system. Um, you know, growing up in a major city with every, you know, all sorts of access and that only grows as we move forward with Uber and Lyft and all these things.
So I'm able to. Experience all the new trends as they happen. Everything from the first kind of accessible buses, you know, with the automated stop announcements and route announcements to Uber, Lyft, you know, getting, uh, cars on demand, if you will, through the phone. And then also just practicing my orientational mobility skills.
So I it's, it's been fortunate and I don't take that for granted. I, I absolutely do not take where I grew up for granted. And I'm very, very lucky to have grown up in a major metropolitan area. Absolutely. So
Timothy: you talk about growing up, we all grew up with role models in our lives. Who was your biggest role model or
Peter: influence?
Oh boy. That is a great question. I, I would have to say, so I. It, [00:14:00] I I'm a, his, I was a history major. Um, I really enjoy reading, so there's always some sort of authors and usually they're pretty off the wall. So I would, I would have to say from a music standpoint, um, just with the, you know, I, I played piano and drums, so I played a lot of classical music.
I played a lot of music all over the board, but from a, from a music standpoint, Frank Zappa is my hero. Um, you know, I think from a personal standpoint, my. Who is an immigrant to this country and came here and didn't speak one word of English. And then, you know, proceeds to who has now been here over 40, 40 plus years.
But, you know, had a son who was blind, which is very uncommon, um, and, and unseen where my dad is from. And so him being able to kind of. Take that in stride. Uh, thanks to my mom who is from Michigan is a strong Michigan connection. she sounds like Sarah Palin. She's got that real. Wow.
Leslie: Wow.
Peter: No, no, no. That's no, no shots fired, you know, just saying, um, [00:15:00] but it's it, you know, I'm very, I think my, my dad and, and really just the.
That would be from a family standpoint, you know, my parents were, were fantastic role models and, and pushed me so hard to be who I am. And then, yeah, I mean, big time, Frank Zappa, Michael Jordan, I live in Chicago. I mean, you have to aspire to be Michael Jordan, right when I grew up in the nineties. So, um, but you know, and from the blindness side, I think there are a lot of trailblazers.
Somebody like Mike May, um, or others who, who have done. Way before GPS way before technology was around people who were traveling Europe, I will never forget going to a, an LCA Li's congenital AOSIS conference in 2001 in Baltimore. And I was a, I was a young teenager talking and I don't remember the person's name, but hearing about this guy who said, uh, you know, who talked about traveling through Italy in the nineties, in the eighties, by himself and being.
A totally blind guy who was not blind from birth. He lost his vision and he wanted to continue to see the world. And he did, and I was like, [00:16:00] this is nuts. Like I need to do this, you know, I'm I'm so I'm, I was so inspired by that. So I, I had a lot of, uh, you know, a lot of, a lot of people to look up to.
Leslie: Christina, you know, as a certified orientation and mobility specialist, I am always looking for new technology to help out our clients. And recently I've been able to test out human wears new stellar track, one
Christina: stellar track. I love that name to what does it do?
Leslie: The stellar truck is an accessible GPS system that guides you to a specified location and confirms the address using a camera.
It also captures text on a document or surfaces like street signs or aisle signs in the grocery store. I've had a lot of fun testing this out. That's
Christina: awesome. All of the things it can do, and of course human wear is such a great partner of ours. So if someone wants this, how do they learn more?
Leslie: All you have to do is head to human wear.com for more.
So when we [00:17:00] presented in, uh, St. Louis recently, we did kind of talking about like the soft skills of O and M. So kind of the things that a lot of times O and M instructors don't have time to teach, or it's not necessarily in the curriculum, but it's still really important. And I remember you mentioning your dad and the impact that your, your dad and your mom had on you.
They set the bar high, like they had really high expectations for you. um, what was that like growing up? Cause like some of the strategies you were mentioning, I still am thinking about like you walking around with water on a plate, the plate, the plate of water. I just like think example amazing. And I love this and that your parents were like, absolutely fine.
You're blind. Okay. But here's all these skills that you're gonna need in your life and they held you to it and look at you. You're incredibly successful.
Peter: Um, I'm super fortunate and I think it's very cliche. I think we hear it all the time, you know, oh my, you know, I'm blind. I can do anything I want, or we're not gonna let this phase us, you know, it's a little bit harder to put that into practice.
Um, and I was very fortunate because my parents did really did put it into practice. I rode a bike. You know, [00:18:00] I was as a totally blind kid. I was, I was on the, you know, granted it was a, uh, we lived on a cul-de-sac, it wasn't cruising down like state street on quite, you know, let's not, let's not get our, our, uh, the wrong impression here, but I was very fortunate in being able to, you know, to, to get outside.
Um, my parents. Th they were not neglectful by any stretch, but they, they let me get hurt. You know, I, I was expected to, just, to, to, to experience and expose the exposure was there. And when I present to parents and really even to not just parents, but somebody who's newer division loss, I work with a lot of people.
Um, whether it's in the VA, um, a place like leader, dog, you know, who are newer to vision loss through a lot of rehab organizations, Exposure can be just as important as learning, you know, as learning a skill. So I was exposed to so much, even if I would never use it, my dad would would, uh, and this, I mean, we, no presentations, you know, gonna be complete without my dad's impression.
So he'd say something like, okay, we're gonna gonna fix the car and I'd be like, we're gonna fix the car. [00:19:00] What do we mean? We're gonna fix the car. What are you talking? And he would, you know, we'd proceed to go and he'd show me where various, you know, where does the coolant go? What is the fan belt? Uh, what are all these.
Will I ever use that? No, because right now, and my wife is cited. If our car breaks, I'm not fixing the car it's going right. The dealer, you know, however, with that being said, I'm exposed to it and I can, I can at least, and, and, you know, I'm, I'm smart enough to know when to stand down, but I can at least say, wow, that really sounds like a, a, a timing belt issue on this car.
Or, geez, this car's shaking a lot. It must be a head gasket because I was exposed to that from my dad. And my mom was the same way. Um, you know, doing laundry. I was expected to, I had chores, um, and I was expected to complete those chores and cleaning the cap box. One of my absolute favorites, right? Oh no, that was my job, regardless.
I mean, and it's something we generally think is gonna be a challenge for a blind kiddo to do. Um, or anyone who's blind, you know, I can't see it. How do I find it? You can, you can certainly find it, uh, with your shovel. I don't mean touching things, but there are [00:20:00] skills and my mom would work with me hand over hand to develop a lot of techniques that were not.
You know, necessarily in school, but they were, they were always able, my parents were always able to help me find alternative methods and they probably didn't look pretty, but alternative methods to access a certain skill that I, that I needed to. And, and I still kind of employ all that stuff today on the road.
So I really think it comes down to exposure, not being afraid to expose your. You know, your, your blind child, or if you are somebody who's newer division loss, expose yourself to new and unfamiliar situations and start to problem solve because exposure teaches problem solving and ultimately independence, whatever form it may be as a result of problem solving.
If we're able to problem solve our independence is, is going to be, you know, far we're gonna have a far better chance of being independent than is. So my parents were. Some would say some would say slave drivers and very intense, you know, very, like, get it done and [00:21:00] you're gonna do this. But at the end of the day, it really gave me a tremendous skillset to fall back on because they were so driven by mm-hmm , uh, creating those expectations and they wanted me to be independent.
Leslie: Yeah. They believed in you and they wanted you to be an independent adult and have your own life and career, which you have totally done. And now you're a parent and a husband. What is that like now raising a child visually impaired, what are some of your tips and tricks or strategies? Cuz I can imagine 18 months.
Right? Busy. Well,
Peter: yeah. And it's amazing because like anything like any parenting, right. We can all watch somebody on TV, tell us how to be good parents. Mm-hmm and you're like, first of all, usually those people are not parents themselves, but they've heard from somebody else how to be a good parent and, and even for anybody.
So you have, you have kids, Leslie, and you know that, you know, It, it's kind of a it's you learn as you go, right? You it's touch and go a lot of the time. Right. Um, and I I've had the same thing now with that being said, I have some very good friends. One of them, Greg SSON from the American printing house who was, who was on our panel.
Mm-hmm over the [00:22:00] summer who, who is also blind and has two children. And his wife is also blind. Um, you know, and, and he's been, he's been a great resource. So it's, I've been very fortunate in building a network, but also very much. It is a learning experience. And you also develop your, your own sort of, uh, techniques, right?
I, I was not the most confident SWER. I don't think any man is the most confident SW
Leslie: don't think anybody, but those nurses are the most CLER. I'm like,
Peter: I can't burrito this baby, you know, but time you, you really start to, to develop it and same changing diapers, um, giving baths, you know, that doesn't mean that I don't, you know, miss things.
I mean, I, the other day I've been playing with my daughter and. She doesn't really spit up or anything anymore, but I'm like, Ooh, I think I found some spit up, you know, we're gonna have to clean this up. Uh, cuz you know, there were things I, I will, I won't miss, but I, I think from a, you know, for like any other parent, it truly is just being able to.
Uh, to problem solve. One thing I've had to do and, and [00:23:00] really will start to work on with, with my daughter is having the call and response side of things, because I want to take her places. And if I don't know where she is, it's not gonna work very well. Mm-hmm um, and we can always put a squeaky shoe on or a, or a bell on or something mm-hmm , but, you know, there comes a point in time where that's going to be.
Not very socially acceptable and not really necessary. So the call and response is one thing I've started, even though she's 18 months old, mm-hmm, saying her name and having her respond so that when we, and just making it second nature. So I will always know where she is. And, and in taking that very seriously, if she doesn't respond, we are probably gonna have to go home.
Mm-hmm right. If you can't play the game, we're not gonna play the game. So, um, That sort of thing, um, you know, is, is, is gonna be very important. And then also, um, my wife has actually learned a lot because she's had to help me come up with some methods of doing things. And it's, it's interesting, you know, to, to see how, how we get some of those things done and primarily it's, you know, just, you know, [00:24:00] rashes or, or different, different things that happen.
I mean, how do you know? Um, and, and sometimes just knowing, um, you know, Physical symptoms. And you know, we can't read body language. No, no parent knows very well how to communicate with their six month old when they're crying. Right. I'm not saying that. I know how, but obviously there are little things that, that we've had to work on.
So there's no, uh, there's no handbook. I don't have a handbook. I thought you were gonna
Leslie: give me some really great tips and tricks here because my son just the other day asked about like, how do you know how to be a mom? And I was like, kid, I have no idea. You know, tell me, you're
Peter: like, oh, you should have said, you think I know how that's
Leslie: really nice.
I'm like we are making this up as we go confident in me.
Peter: that's
Timothy: awesome. So my question is, are you gonna take the techniques that you learned as a child and teach those to your blind child that you have right
Peter: now? So I, I will, and, and my, my daughter is cited. Um, and so, but I will say, you know, and this is a question and I like where we're going with this, because we're, we're gonna get real deep and we're gonna, we're gonna back [00:25:00] this up and get very deep here at the taking lead podcast, leading
Um, you know, one of the questions was, are you going to, or are you concerned about blindness, um, and will you do genetic testing or will this be something you and I had said you. There are a million things that, that can happen, uh, you know, or be a part, you know, of, of any child's life growing up. And a lot of adversity blindness is the least of my concerns.
The absolute least I have no concerns because I did grow up blind. So I have no problem. Now my, my daughter is cited. Um, and you know, she, she's not blind, but I, I think it's, you. Of course, if I had a blind child, there would be no doubt about it. I would, I'd be well equipped. And I've worked in the schools for so long as well, not just with human wear, but I've worked as a, as a teacher's assistant in the co-op that I went through for a number of years.
And I still go out from time to time and we'll do a lot of volunteering and helping with the kiddos. So I I've definitely. Been able and I worked as a one-on-one mentor, uh, for kiddos here in Chicago as well. Um, later in high school, in an early college [00:26:00] where we would do social skills, we would play games, we would cook, we would fold clothes, we would, you know, play piano.
And so I, I definitely have tried to impart what I've learned. Uh, And, and give advice to not only to, to the kiddos, but also to the parents. I think the parents, uh, it's a, it's a major struggle. It could be really hard to put your foot down and I can come in and say, put your foot down. You can do this, you know?
And, um, so yes, I, I love being able to, to kind of pass on, uh, what I've learned, what I know, um, and usually doing that in person kind of in a hands on environment is, is the most effective. Because anybody can talk the talk, but you've really got to be able to demonstrate and slowly or step by step kind.
Parcel that out and similar to what I do at Humanware creating step by step written instructions, video tutorials, um, doing that is extremely important. So I enjoy doing that a lot as well. You have
Leslie: just done so much. Well, Christina and are sitting here, like we need to do more in life, right? Like my mouth is just wide open.
Like you're talking about mentoring and doing all these things. I'm like, oh my gosh. [00:27:00] But I think that's so incredible. Like just being a mentor for kids. And like you said, parents, there are just so many people who don't know anything abouts and are just starting out and have no idea the expectations, or like you said, um, putting your foot down, right.
Like, or having these expectations to clean out the cat litter that's okay.
Peter: And encouraging. And I think too you're right. And I think also it's really important to get multiple opinions the way I do something. And I tell this to, to lots of parents because parents will. We'll say I want my child to be just like you or teachers or, and I'll say, no, no, no, that's not the right approach.
We don't, we don't want that. Right. We want Peter does things a certain way. Um, you know, I will have advice that doesn't mean I have the only method or solution. And so to the parents out there, or even to somebody who's, who's going through vision loss, I'd strongly encourage you to talk to multiple, you know, let's say you're trying to solve a problem.
Maybe you're trying to, to mow your lawn, you know, maybe you're trying to clean your gutters. I can tell you how to do it. That doesn't mean I have the only [00:28:00] way, or, and, and sometimes it is about kind of balancing what you hear and taking a little bit and, and also trying yourself. So I, and, and that was, you know, when I teach these kiddos things, I always say, you're gonna find probably a more effective way of doing this.
And believe me, I have a lot of shortcuts that I do not teach other people because it's not the way to do it. And I know that. But it works for me. So, you know, it is really important to, and not to, to really not be afraid of failure. And, and I think we all are afraid of failure, always, but we're really afraid that we're gonna break that, you know, that, that glass jar, when we're spooning things out or we're cooking or we're gonna spill stuff everywhere.
That's okay. We, we have to do it. We have to do it to learn and, or we're gonna, we're gonna shovel the driveway in our. Parents or friends gonna call and be like, dude, what happened to your driveway? There's snow everywhere. And someone shoveled the grass, you know? And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I think those things are really important learning experiences.
Leslie: I think that's awesome. Yeah. And unfortunately we are coming to the end of our time, which is so sad, cuz I feel like we can continue talking for hours, but we have [00:29:00] to ask because we know you're such an independent, good traveler. Why no guide
Peter: dog. So what it comes down to? Um, it's nothing, uh, I, I have no animosity toward guide dogs.
Trust me. Uh, it really is. It in my personal situation was a timing piece. Mm-hmm I had the opportunity and actually I had someone come to my house from leader, dog. I would've chosen leader dog. Again, I have a Midwest bias, right? I'm not going anywhere else. I'm gonna, that's the only place that exists. Um, but.
You know, I, it really came down to the timing I had a lot going on. Um, and you know, it would've been a great time to do it. Would've been between college and high school, uh, high school and college that is at that transition phase, you know, it, and it. I, it didn't happen. There was a lot going and once I started getting into a rhythm, it, it really was a timing piece as I started traveling.
And just with the way I travel and, and from a personal standpoint, I, you know, the responsibility is drastic. Um, and. I, [00:30:00] I, you know, I'm responsible for a human, so I'm not saying I can't be responsible for a dog as well. uh, but it, it is something that, you know, I, I just feel with the, that the amount of travel I was doing, I was on the road 43 weeks a year.
Yeah. That's I'm saying, and it was just, it would've been a tremendous undertaking to cuz I always thought, should I go get a dog and. Who knows someday. I may still, but, uh, for myself personally, it's just, it was just a, a timing piece. And then I'm, I'm a very confident traveler mm-hmm and I'm not saying that guide dog travelers are not, I have seen actually I've been in, I've been so.
And there have been some amazing instances. I've been in times square or in, in, uh, Penn station with dogs who have gotten through crowds that I would've taken 25 minutes to get through. And they've gotten through in about five and some of those things, I mean, that's remarkable and I've seen dogs provide this level of independence that is.
Staggering, you know, and I'll think, wow, that's really cool. That must be nice. You know? And so I, uh, but from a personal standpoint, I, I think it really is, and it's always an individual piece and I'm asked this by [00:31:00] parents a lot. Mm-hmm or by somebody who's newer to blindness, you know, is a dog right. For me.
And I'll say, I don't know. I don't know. Um, and that's why I say talk to multiple people cuz you will have somebody who's so vehemently opposed or somebody who is so you know, determined. And it is the only way. And I really think it is a personal decision. That's why leader dog is fantastic because you can assess those things.
Yeah. Um, you know, and have that time to make a decision and, and, and learn, you know, about, about that choice. So it's tough. It's tough. But from a personal standpoint, uh, no dog for me for now, and my wife reminds me, she takes care of enough in this house. right.
Leslie: Listen, you know, I am team McCain all the ways.
So not please. I just needed somebody else to say it. Right. It's not for everybody. Yeah. It is another living breathing thing. And you try. Amazingly with a gain independently. So, uh, thank you for reiterating all those things I'm beaming over here. Well, and I
Christina: think that is just like a great last piece of advice send with, because I think a lot of people don't think about that.
They think guide dog is the only option sometimes, [00:32:00] cuz they don't know. So I think amazing piece of advice.
Peter: Yeah. And I would just reiterate again, you know, you will also meet folks who are very against, uh, in the community. Um, and, and that is, that's not, that's a very flawed approach as well, because I'm telling you, I've seen such extreme independence from, from individuals who would not otherwise be independent.
Thanks to the dog. Uh I've I've seen it. I've seen it and I can, I could. Lots of examples. Certainly won't do that because a lot of names would be known, but it's, you know, it's, it's one of those things it's, it's neat to see. Um, and that bond, that forms and relationship, and just being able to confidently and efficiently move through some, some very, very challenging environments.
So I really would ask and assess and, uh, I, you know, I, I definitely can see both sides and who knows, because I might be on here cuz this podcast, this is its infancy guys. This is like 1.0 wait, till like taking lead, like series six. You know, when you guys, when we're, you know, in like 12 to 15 years, when I come on, I might have a dog.
You
Leslie: never know things can change. [00:33:00] Well, thank you so much, Peter, for joining us today, we really appreciate.
Peter: Thank you tremendously. Thank you, Timothy. Thank you, Christina. Thank you, Leslie. I really appreciate it and will continue to, to work together, um, on things as we go forward. So hopefully to everyone listening, uh, you can track me down somewhere and, um, you know, ask me any questions or find me, you know, when it comes to human wear pieces or if you just.
Need some need some, uh, some advice always reach out if you have 'em in your area. If I'm at a table near you, as I tell most people, ,
Christina: I'm
Leslie: fine. I love that. that's awesome. Thank you. And thank you to our listeners for listening to the, taking the lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kuo and Christina Hoeppner.
We hope you enjoyed learning about Peter and please join us next week. As we continue to dive into the world of. If you'd like to
Christina: learn more about applying to leader, dog for our free services, you can head to leader, dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead at leader, dog.org.
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