Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christine Hoeppner with my cohost Leslie Haskins and Timothy Kuo. It has been such a busy fall month. I just had my last wedding of this
Leslie: season. , I feel like all
Christina: I've talked about is this wedding, that wedding, this wedding, but this one was down in Ohio.
And it was a beautiful weekend. Um, it was outside, so thankfully it was not snowing
Leslie: or anything like that. That's risky to do an outdoor wedding this time of year.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And it was hot. Like I dressed in a fall, like fall outfit, and I. Was like very warm. Yeah.
Leslie: So, but it was, it was
Christina: nice. I am glad to be home.
Next weekend is like the first weekend I'm going to be home.
Leslie: That's good. Being home is nice. Yeah. We spent the weekend kind of doing things in the yard, trying to do some [00:01:00] leaves. All that good stuff. We are prepping, We are having a bunch of friends come over, um, soon, like 18 people staying at my house. Oh my goodness.
Yeah. So we've got a lot of prep work to do, trying to figure out where everybody's gonna go and what everybody's gonna do. Are they all sleeping over? Yes. Wow. Yes. I mean, eight of those are kids. Okay. So there's small little bodies we can all fit in one room. Yes. Um, lots of air mattresses. Lots of air mattresses.
I think it'll be interesting. The youngest is almost two. We'll be too soon. Um, and then the oldest goodness, I think is maybe 10. Nine, somewhere in there. So we've got a full range. Oh wow. Yeah. That is a lot. And my poor little Zachary is the only boy. Aww. Oh no, I know. It's all girl. He's surrounded by girls in every aspect of his life, so hopefully he'll make a really good husband someday.
Yeah. if, If he's so chooses. If he's so chooses. You know, That's how
Christina: my. Brother was, he had two older sisters. Yeah, that's good. We [00:02:00] used to dress him up in dresses and stuff. It's
Leslie: normal. Yeah. Oh no. Yeah, he hasn't quite figured it out yet. He loves it. So Timothy, what are you up to? Uh,
Timothy: right now I'm sitting in, uh, South Carolina by a lake called Lake Heartwell in Anderson, South Carolina.
So, uh, we climb up here about two days ago and sitting in a trailer and glaciers got to play in the lake a couple of times already and. Uh, the weather's perfect, of course. And, uh, a little warm in the afternoon, but cool in the morning, so having a great time. .
Mark: That's
Leslie: awesome. Yes. And then we'll be gearing up for the holidays.
Christina: Oh man, you guys, I'm not ready. Like this year has blown, Can you believe like in January we started this podcast?
Leslie: Yeah. That is crazy. We're gonna be celebrating one year soon. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. We'll have to have a big celebration. Yeah. Yes. We'll
Timothy: have to have a celebration. I was thinking about that earlier this morning about that which, what should we
Mark: do?
Leslie: Oh my goodness. Yeah. We're gonna have to start planning that. All right, well we got a little time. We'll, we'll get on that. . Send us any ideas or [00:03:00] suggestions people So, Well, today is pretty exciting because our guest is a longtime leader, dog client who has just received his third leader. Yes,
Christina: Mark Harris lives in Roanoke, Indiana with his wife of 54 years, and they have three children and eight grandchildren.
He's a registered investment advisor managing portfolio for private partnership. He was born with a hearing impairment and in 1982 was diagnosed with Usher Syndrome. He now has five degrees of his sight.
Timothy: Good morning, Mark, and welcome to the podcast for everybody who doesn't know what is Usher Syndrome.
Mark: Well as your syndrome is the, is, uh, affects both hearing and vision. Uh, sometimes it affects a person's balance. Uh, they can lose their balance, so on so forth. Um, the major symptoms are, uh, deafness and hearing loss and eye disease, uh, called [00:04:00] Retin pigmentosa. It's interesting that, uh, four to 17. 100,000 people are affected by this syndrome.
And it's a genetic syndrome. And uh, it's interesting. I found out that I was hard of hearing, uh, at, after I was born because my brother, who was seven years older than I was, uh, actually had the same disease. In fact, he. Before he passed away in 2015, uh, he was totally blind and, and that at the age he was then I am at this point and I still have five degrees sight.
So I've been blessed in the, in having sight for however long I need will have it.
Leslie: That's interesting even in, you know, the same family that these types [00:05:00] of things impact people so differently. That's one thing we say all the time is that, you know, vision is so tricky and even if you're diagnosed with the exact same condition and maybe even your acuities are the same, you experience blindness so different, um, it impacts everybody a little bit differently.
So that's really interesting. So you and your brother both had usher's syndrome. Anybody else in your family, like in your, um, parents, grandparents, anybody like that? I have
Mark: a sister who, uh, does not have ushers and uh, and it's my understanding that it does sometimes generate through males more than females.
Oh, okay. So, but I'm, that's just my understanding. I'm not sure that's accurate or
Christina: not. Very interesting. So Mark, you're on your third leader dog. How did you find Leader Dog originally?
Mark: Well, um, I was a, a lion member in my hometown in Richmond, Indiana. [00:06:00] And, uh, so I was familiar with Leader Dog through that Lion's organization.
Um, actually at the time, I decided to to get a dog. Um, I had looked at several different schools and I was very impressed with Leader Dogs in terms of his professionalism. Its fulfilling and most impressed that they raise their money to fund clients. Like myself said, I don't have to pay a dime, and uh, that was just.
Impressive to me. Uh, I, I recently met someone here in Fort Wayne that, uh, has a leader dog and, uh, she was quite frustrated with the dog. The dog had not performed to what she wanted, and she told me that she ready to get a new dog, but she would come, go to California. And, uh, so I kind of cringed at [00:07:00] that point and.
Really, it wasn't in a situation where I could sit down with her and talk to her about it. But, uh, if you do your research, if you do your, you know, due diligence, you'll find that leader dog comes out on top.
Leslie: That's very kind of you to say, Mark. Um, you know, it's really interesting, a couple different things.
One, you know, everybody. Picks different guide dog schools or guide dog organizations based on their needs. Everybody has their strengths and things that they really excel at. So it's really good to do your research and find the organization that fits your needs. Um, and sometimes, listen, I get it, a trip to California, why wouldn't you?
Um, but people forget how beautiful Michigan is here. It's absolutely stunning. We have all the seasons, which is absolutely great. Another thing I wanted to chat about was, uh, you said that you were a Lions Club member and so many of our episodes always come back to the Lions Club. They're huge supporters for us.
They really help us be able to provide these services completely free to our clients. Um, and it's so interesting to me [00:08:00] all the time that. Uh, you know, lions are kind of the, like the feet on the streets. So many times we hear like, how did you find Leader Dog? And it's, Oh, well I was at dinner one night and the lion walked up to me and said, Hey, have you ever heard of Leader Dog?
Or things like that. But so many of our clients then become, uh, Lions. But you're saying yours happen in the reverse order. So you were a lion and then kind of became a leader talk client. That's so cool. Well, we are so delighted and thank you so much for all of your work that you've done as allian as. So Mark, you
Timothy: say you, you got your third dog and I'm on my first dog.
Her name's Glacier. And so what was the reasons your other two dogs were, Did they retire because of medical reasons or did they retire because they just said, Hey, I'm done with this. And what were the signs if they did retire that
Mark: way? That's an interesting question because I, I was told when I got my first dog in 2005, You know, [00:09:00] you'll, you'll know when it's time for your dog to retire.
And of course, that's a pretty general statement that I didn't really know, know what to expect. Um, but, uh, my first dog, Callie, uh, was a lab. Uh, she worked for, uh, 11 years and, uh, she passed away after she was 14. And so, Basically she, she was, uh, you could see it in her, uh, she would be a little slower about getting out and ready to go out when we have to go out and do work and, or she didn't want to jump into the car as quickly as, as she did when she was younger.
Um, and then she started having some, uh, health issues that was, uh, causing her to, you know, slow down quite a. And, uh, with my second dog, it's [00:10:00] interesting that what I found with her was, you know, when we first went to get her, she was a go-getter and she was moving and she was moving very quickly and, and, uh, sometimes I had to catch up with her.
But, uh, generally, um, when we got to the point of she was seven, eight years old, I could see that she was flowing down and I couldn't figure out why. And come to find out she had arthritis and uh, in her spine and her back. And so if I was walking ahead of her, she would stop until she caught up with me and then we'd move on.
So, you know, there it, every dog different and I expect that, you know, people have different stories as to how they realize it's time for the dog film. You, you, you know it, you realize it when it, when the time comes. I love
Leslie: that people always say like, How do you know when it's [00:11:00] the one, like when you're getting married and until I, seriously, I used to hear that all the time of like, when you know, you just know and you're like, Whatever.
I don't know about that. And then it happens. You're like, Oh yeah, I guess I kinda get it. It sounds like it's the same thing, . You guys have
Christina: heard that? Yes, I have heard that many
Leslie: times. Right. So I feel like that's kind of the same thing cuz that's something that everybody's always so nervous about is like, how will I know when my guide dog is done?
When they're ready to retire? And it sounds like that's the case. You just, you know. Well it is kinda like a
Christina: relationship. You form that bond. So I guess
Leslie: I will give you that one. Thank you, . Okay. Thank you. I have already started thinking about my holiday shopping, and one thing on my list is getting gifts from Leader Dogs for the blind gift shop.
That's
Christina: great, and guess what, You're in luck because for the month of November and December, if you use code taking the lead, you'll get free shipping. But remember, you can only use one
Leslie: code per order. This is amazing news. I am heading to [00:12:00] leader dog.org and clicking shop. Right. So, um, we also hear that it, the hardest transition is from first guide dog to second guide dog.
You now are onto your third. Would you say that's true or would you say that, you know, obviously each time is so difficult.
Mark: I have found that, you know, each dog has their own personality and they, they show us and in different ways. Uh, for example, my first job, uh, Cali. Was, um, you know, as a puppy, you know, I get her before she's two years old, so she's still a puppy, and, uh, she's very energetic and ready to go.
And, and Callie was very curious. Uh, even though she, uh, she was somewhat standoffish when people would come off up to me, she would get to my side real close and get behind me. Um, she was not a overly social. [00:13:00] So, um, you know, the transition to from her to my second dog was interesting because my second dog was raised in a prison and so she had a lot of the environments of the prison and some environments she would not, you know, privileged to like flying in a plane or taking long trips in a car and that kind of thing.
But she. She was very strong and very, uh, disciplined, um, but was a more sociable dog. She enjoyed people coming up to her and talking to her and, and, uh, pat her when I'd let em pat her, and so on, so forth. And it's interesting on the third one now, uh, Izzy, uh, she's a very, very, uh, loving, caring type dog. Uh, very soci.
Very disciplined. Um, [00:14:00] of course, you know, I've only had her two months now and she'll be two in December, and it's interesting that she still has a lot of energy. Um, I, I will say this, so it, it's not so much the transition with the dog is it's much of me transitioning to the dog. In other words, what I'm saying is that, um, she's got so much.
and I'm 10 years older than I was when I got the last one, . So it's not, I, I, I have to come up with more energy to stay up with. But, uh, Izzy is a very, uh, kind, uh, caring dog. She, she liked attention. Uh, she and Hannah, who is my second dog, they're getting along very well. They play and they have a routine every morning that they have to do.
Playing with each other and running around the house and so on and so forth, and, uh, but they get along very well. [00:15:00]
Leslie: Can you tell us about what that's like bringing home a new guide dog to your older guide dog? That's always something too that we hear is a concern or people are nervous that their other guide dogs going to be very sad when they leave the house with their new guide dog or that the dogs won't get along or anything like that.
Can you tell us how that has gone for you?
Mark: That have gone very well? My second dog, she retired. Dog. She's happy staying home. I think. Uh, she doesn't show any, any, uh, signs of, uh, sadness or that kind of thing. She does get excited when we come home. She's ready to play. Um, you know, it's like they're.
Communicating to one another. Well, what do you do today? So on, so, so forth. And, uh, so, and I have not in, in both cases, my first dog and my second dog, I'm not experienced a sadness or, uh, discouragement or anything of that sort. Uh, in [00:16:00] fact, with Hannah, it was very health issues. Uh, she's more energetic now.
Uh, running around, she's doing things that she wasn't doing before. So, um, I don't, I'm not had the experience of a bad experience, or disappointing, or discouraging, disappointed, uh, experience with, with feed dogs.
Leslie: That's good to hear. I've never heard of it going poorly or that dog's being sad cuz like you mentioned, you know, Hannah told you she was ready to retire, she was slowing down, she was in pain, she was had arthritis, she was ready for that next phase of her life.
Um, but I know that's something that a lot of people are really nervous about, you know, and rightfully so. I totally get it.
Mark: It's probably more of a situation that, it's more of an impact on me as a, as a client. Mm. And it is for the dog itself. I mean, of course there was emotional situation with me and you [00:17:00] know, I was excited about going a leader dog to get a new dog.
But at the same time I was, you know, saddened that I'm retiring a dog. But, uh, I would say I had more of an impact in the. Well, Mark, you got
Timothy: eight grandchildren. That's four more than I've got. I don't know how you do it. Uh, so how's that interaction with the new dog and the old dog, with the grandkids? I mean, I guess they get to play with the, the older dog now more than the interactions.
I'd be, you know,
Mark: loosened up a little bit. Uh, I was thinking about that question, uh, in the last couple days and I wanted to ask my granddaughters who lived here in Roanoke, that question. But I haven't had a chance to do that. But I would say that they were more excited about seeing the new dog . And they, you know, the energy, the, the, um, the attention that the new dog was giving to them was exciting.[00:18:00]
Um, and each child has a different, uh, my impression is each child has a different, uh, perspective of. . I think the fact that Hannah was raised in a prison was a little more disciplined in her, uh, manners and so on and so forth, that kind of didn't give the grandkids the kind of excitement they had about Izzy, who was very energetic, wants them to play with her, and so on, so forth.
Um, but um, the one thing that's interesting here is. My daughter, my, the grand, the mother of my grand four granddaughter, um, is, has four dogs. Oh wow. So when we, when we go over to their house and we have Hannah and Izzy and their four dogs, uh, [00:19:00] all attention is on the dog running around there. , I
Christina: bet time's Big dog party.
Mark. Um, did you, you know, with your grandkids as they got older and all of that, did you, did they understand what your dogs are, that they are guide dogs?
Mark: They, um, my daughter was, and I have spent a lot of time with my grandchildren trying to explain to them why the dog is, why I have the dog and what the dog does.
And so because we go out for dinner or I'm going to an athletic. Of one of my kids playing volleyball or tennis or whatever may be, uh, they see how the go works and, uh, so they, you know, they understand it once they, you know, see a dog working, uh, they're, they understand very clearly the, the disease I am and my limitations and are [00:20:00] very, very good in, in helping me in situations.
I might be in a situation where the dog doesn't actually see something that they should be, and they'll remind me that the dog, you know, needs to, uh, do this and that. The one thing that I find very interesting is that when people go through doors, they go through the left door instead of the right door, and the dogs are trained to go on to change side depending on which side the door.
And so I, I get frustrated because, you know, the dog's on my left side and somebody opens the door on the right side. I have to stop and turn, uh, have the dog come around through my right side so the dog can get hit by the door. Uh, that is something that's hard to train people with. Even my grandchildren, uh, they'll forget that.
But, uh, you know, people [00:21:00] act. I don't underst. Because, you know, you always, we drive on the right side. We, we walk on the right side, but we don't open doors on the right side, . And so that's a little frustrating at times.
Leslie: So for anybody listening who's kind of confused by that, our, our, uh, handlers are instructed.
To have the dog go, um, through the door opposite of the hinge side, so that they're furthest away from the hinge so that there's no accidents of tails getting caught in the door or anything like that. Um, and so if the door's opening the opposite way, then you have your dog, you have to have the dog go around is the command and come around the other side, and it's just kind of a safety feature.
Yeah, that would be really frustrating. I hadn't honestly really thought about that, Mark, but that does take time to kinda stop and go around and do that. Um, so
Mark: interesting. Well, I had a situation with my second dog where I was there at school and [00:22:00] we went out for dinner and, and, uh, most doors that open left and right have a, a pull down the middle.
And this was that night. This was that night. I didn't see the door, and the person who was kind of behind me didn't make me aware of it, and so I ran into it. So I'm very, I'm very, uh, very reluctant to go through doors like that. Excuse me. And, uh, I'm gonna be easier in a minute, but anyway, it happens.
anyway, so I'm very reluctant to go through doors to have a post in there, and sometimes the dog is trying to figure out which side they want me to go on. Mm-hmm. . So, and, uh, so that, that's been a little frustrating.
Christina: So, Mark, I have a question. You've, you know, this is your third [00:23:00] dog. Do you see yourself ever getting another.
I know you just got it. It's been two months. But ,
Mark: I, I, that's a great question because that was a question I raised myself. I mean, I'm 74 years old and you know, if things panned out, I'd be 80 years old when I get my neck done. Um, I think it just, it's the circumstances to what kind of health you're in and whether you have the.
The mentality to be able to work with the dog. That was a question I kept asking myself before I got Izzy. I and my wife and I talked about it, you know, um, am I gonna be able to, um, work with the new dog in the way I did with the second and first dog? And, uh, it's different. You know, we all age, we all, [00:24:00] uh, have different lifestyles.
We all have different, uh, ways of doing things. And so to answer your question, I think that's the question that it's very important for an older person, uh, that's important to. Before you get the dog. Uh, because if you're not going to pay the attention, if you're not gonna be disciplined in working with the dog, then why have the dog?
I mean, it's not gonna work. It's just not gonna work. So you gotta be willing to make that transition and be able to, to, uh, Pay the attention to it. Now I to whether I'll get another one. It just all depends on what kind of health I'm in and what my mental attitude is at that point.
Leslie: Yeah, I appreciate that insight.
You know, being a season traveler there and a season guide dog user. You understand the amount of work that goes into it. It's a lot physically, it's a lot mentally, it's [00:25:00] a lot emotionally. So being able to really, you know, self-evaluate and recognize if that's the right fit or not is really important. So I think that's amazing at a really good point.
Mark: Uh, it, it's interesting and, and I know Tim was at my, uh, celebration, uh, and one of the things I. They asked for people to make comments, and one of the comments I made was that E, each time I get a dog, there's a different perspective of beater dog and, and dogs in general. And my, my attention to him, and the one thing that I think as clients, particularly a third client or a fourth or fifth, Is that we don't realize sometimes the transition that the dog makes because the dog goes through four different steps before they get to me and before we are working, uh, on a regular basis.[00:26:00]
So the impact is more on me than it is the dog. When you stop and think about, because I have to make the adjustment, I have to make the adjustments to work with the dog that I have gotten cause each dog has a different person. Different way of doing things. And uh, so if I'm willing to make that adjustment, if I'm willing to put up with the, the, uh, silliness of the dog and so on, so forth, um, then, you know, then you wanna move on.
You want to get in that another dog. But that was a question I asked myself very closely, uh, before I got this dog and talked to my wife about in quite.
Leslie: That's amazing. Well, thank you so much, Mark, for joining us today and sharing your story and your experiences. We really appreciate all the insight.
Mark: Can I, can I mention one more thing?
Of course. Okay. One of the things that I shared with [00:27:00] the team that worked with, um, Myla, um, was that, you know, they spent a lot of time training each job. You know, teaching them the command and then we come on site and then they're working with us and teaching us what the dog can do and how the dog can work and, and so on, so forth.
Um, one of the comments I made was that I think it's very important to understand, and there's not a criticism to the, the instructors and stuff. This is just a, this is really a compliment and that is,
What the trainers and the instructors are doing has a bigger impact on us as clients because we can do things that we've never done before. We're capable of getting a new job, or we're [00:28:00] capable of going to places that we've never been before. In fact, my first dog, Callie, we took a cruise in the care of.
and so for 14 days, so Callie got to visit new other countries, different people. She got to ride on a boat in the ocean, so on and so forth. So, you know, don't go through their transition. But me as a client, I go through transition as well, and sometimes it's, it's good, sometimes it's challenging. And sometimes it's perfect in my case, because of my attitude and I'm willing to work with the dog and willing to learn.
Uh, I've not had any bad experience, so I wanted to share that there, that, that people with Leader Dog or a class act, uh, all the way from, uh, the people who clean my bedroom when I'm there, to the people who. In the [00:29:00] residence hall to the cafeteria people and most of all the instructors and my three instructors, Sue and Kate and Linda, are just absolutely fabulous people and they are a real class act.
Leslie: Well, thank you for sharing that. We could not agree more. Uh, we are so fortunate to work with an amazing team at Leader Dog in every department, in every aspect. We say it all the time, but everybody's there truly for the mission, um, no matter what the role. And it's a very unique place to work. And so thank you for sharing that.
That's very, very kind and we will certainly pass along those sentiments to our wonderful, uh, guide Doug Mobility instructors and team. But thank you everyone for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kuo and Christina Hepner. We hope you enjoyed learning about Mark's story.
Please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness. And if you'd like
Christina: to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, [00:30:00] you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas.
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