Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Heppner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins, and we're missing Timothy Kuo today because he's on a trip, but
Leslie: I'm here. You are here.
It's
Christina: like, Everybody's always on a trip. I will be taking trips one day. Okay. Maybe. And you guys will be
Leslie: like, guess what? Listen, I'm actually delighted. I don't have any trips really on the calendar. Nothing more than just day trips. So yeah, I'm actually really looking forward to that. The travel has been, you know, wonderful.
But yeah, I'm ready to be home. Well, I think we.
Christina: Mentioned this probably a few weeks ago, I can't even remember now. But, um, your birthday is coming up, but it's also the day of a very fun event
Leslie: at Leader Dog. I do appreciate that. You put my birthday first. Yes. You know,
Christina: I, I was waiting for you to be, excuse me.
Leslie: Yes. Bark and Brew is happening, uh, June 10th. We're [00:01:00] super excited about it. I just kind of saw like the layout today of where everything's gonna be and I am pumped. It's gonna be the best birthday party ever. Yeah. Where,
Christina: where's the, where's your cake and candles
Leslie: going? Do you know? I did ask and inquire about that, but I think it's gonna be like a surprise.
Oh, is it? Yeah. That's my understanding cuz it wasn't on the layout, which was weird, but, well,
Christina: I hope, uh, people, whoever's in charge is listening to this Yeah.
Leslie: Episode and, oh, I talked to him directly. Okay. I've got it in. All right. Well,
Christina: on top of that, we also have the 5k. But it's very cool because this 5K is also being offered virtually.
So if you cannot come, um, to Rochester, Michigan, Rochester Hills, Michigan area, um, You can actually run it, you can sign up the same way. You'll get a t-shirt, um, and you use the hashtag Bark Brew 23. Cool. And you can run it virtually and kind of put your journey on social media. Yeah. I don't know why. I forgot what's I was about to say about social media.
Leslie: It's what [00:02:00] I do every day. I know. But that's really cool. So people can still participate. Of course. We're gonna be having fun. In person at the event that follows the 5k, but it's, it's nice that everybody else can join too. Yeah. Well, and
Christina: you can, you know, if you're not in the area or you know, you can run and then maybe go to your own local brewery or something.
Yeah. If that's your thing. Or go get a coffee or whatever it may be. And just keep celebrating
Leslie: yourself that day. Yeah. You know? Or me celebrate me or celebrate Leslie. I'm just kidding. She wants the hashtag
Christina: to be Leslie's
Leslie: birthday. Yes, I think so. Let's see which one wins everybody. I'm just kidding. I wouldn't even know how to begin to check that.
Yeah, I'm super pumped about the event. Stephen was showing me the layout and there's gonna be, you know, music and food and drinks and lots of kid activities. Yeah, I know. I love to bring my family, my kids. Um, I think my in-laws and parents and. You know, friends are gonna come to. Yeah. Which will make it a really great day.
Christina: I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. Well, and last year was my first time going to Bark Brew [00:03:00] and we're at a different location this year. Mm-hmm. Actually, I kinda like the location better cuz it's kind of, we're in the center of Rochester and. It's just so walkable in that area too. But what was so cool to me last year, since it was my first time at the event, just seeing like how much there was for everybody.
Like even if beer isn't your thing. Yeah. There was so many other things to do and like the music was great. My parents were dancing and I have a. So many videos of them, they're, I'm, I'm saving them, you know, for
Leslie: like, Christina climbed the rock wall. I did climb
Christina: the rock wall. We'll see if that happens again.
I'm already getting, you know, Steven's already like making me bets on like what I'm gonna do this year. So
Leslie: I think it'll be fun. I'm really looking forward to it and hopefully we'll have good weather and people will come out and enjoy it and it's all for a good cause. Yeah. Awesome. Well, that's what we've got going on in June, June 10th, but right now, today with us, our guest has participated in several Leader [00:04:00] dog programs, and recently was on campus receiving a leader dog.
Yes. And
Christina: I had the opportunity to chat with her. Juanita Lilly resides in northeast Michigan and says the programs at Leader Dog has enhanced her confidence and independence. Not only in DA Daily Travel, but travel throughout the United States. Juanita, it's so nice to have you on the podcast
Leslie: today. Yes.
Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Yes. Would you mind just telling us a little bit more about yourself?
Juanita: Absolutely. Yes, of course. The first question people I'm sure wanna know is, how much vision do you have your vision, disability? Well, I think that's a perfect place to answer that here, but. Of jokes aside.
I think that is one, definitely one of the questions I had to get used to saying, Hey, it's not your business when I'm just trying to take my adventure down the street or to a restaurant or on my travels regardless, because [00:05:00] I've been legally blind since first. Mm-hmm. I have a hereditary eye condition.
And essentially just to summarize, I, my first program at Leader Dogs was the youth programs where I applied to receive a tracker and. That moment was truly life changing. Um, I went through vi loss in middle school. I was using some print, different color contrast, different things. I was also utilizing the cane reluctantly.
Um, but hey, you know, I'm sure petty many people can relate Absolut. Absolutely. Yes, exactly. But. I was very fortunate to have services, whether it's counseling, services, orientation, mobility, and um, services by a teacher consultant for the visually impaired in my school district. So I was very fortunate for that.
But I [00:06:00] remember one day my on m orientation and mobility instructors like, Hey, uh, you should apply for a tracker. Could I really love technology? And I like. To walk around and things like that. And to be honest, I was having challenges during that experience, um, or during that timeframe where it was more difficult mm-hmm.
For me to accept using the cane. Mm-hmm. So I of course applied, but you know, man, I like to do things at the last minute. I submitted my essay at 4 59 that evening when it was due at five, but he was on time. Yeah. Goodness. Yeah, so that happened and it was great. I definitely enjoyed, I remember working with Erica, which was, she was amazing.
And Is amazing. Yes. Um, and then working with other individuals such as Barry and um, other staff members. And it was a beautiful experience. That is a, because I was able to be with other youth going through [00:07:00] similar experiences and. It's very nice because just like anything else in life, just because one thing might be challenging for you, it may not be challenging for somebody else and vice versa.
So it was very nice to share different experiences and coping mechanisms and things like that, but more. Importantly, it was a lot of fun. Then do several activities. For example, playing Foursquare outside and doing the tandem stuff. So I remember all that. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, that's very cool. Um, but then fast forward, I did some traveling, uh, abroad when I was in college.
Ooh, very fun. Yep. It was beautiful. But the one thing they don't teach you in o and m is how to obtain a new cane in a foreign country. Oh
Leslie: yeah. We, we always skip that lesson somehow.
Juanita: Exactly. So I actually lost my cane in the ocean. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. [00:08:00] So I I a deck over the ocean and you know the poles right?
So tall umbrellas. Mm-hmm. My cane went down in the middle of that hole. Oh my gosh. I just have wonderful friends that like, I'll go get it. I'm like, mm-hmm. It is dark. It is nighttime. I would never make anyone go down the water without seeing what's down there, yada, yada. Y I'm not being familiar. Yeah.
With the. Experience. I was like, no, it's not worth it. Um, but so I did a pan cane, but what was more interesting was that the Keene type was different. The way they measured the kee was different from the us. The cane type was way different, but so much better in that type of terrain. There was so many uneven sidewalks, so many holes within the sidewalks, so like more trash and things like that.
Obviously not as clean as the. Uh, the majority of the sidewalks in the us. Um, but it was, it [00:09:00] was a very interesting experience. Um,
Leslie: it sounds like it. I don't think I've encountered that before in my, my years ago, and I haven't heard that story before, but good to Oh, you, well, good to know and to think about and Yeah.
That is quite interesting that they were, were, uh, kind of issuing a ca based on their environment, you know? Yeah. Um, we always think about how fast a person walks, how tall they are and things like that. Um, but yeah, that's really cool.
Christina: Yeah. And um, yeah, it's very cool. I know you kind of touched on the technology, but for people who don't know, what is a, um, tracker?
Is that what you called
Juanita: it? Yeah, tracker. So it's basically like a GPS system. That had like a layout for, uh, screen reader on it for people who are blind or low vision or visually impaired. And it was basically, it's kind of like the tracker breeze, um, that they do, uh, in the vic, the, what is it that they give us?
The Victor Reader Tracker guide. The, the Victor Reader [00:10:00] Tracker. Yeah, exactly. Yep. So it's, it's sort of like that, but just obviously older technology. Um, but it was a good experience, I mean, Will never forget it. And in fact, that is the experience that empowered me to return back to liter dogs. In 2017. I knew, um, later on that I wanted a dog.
But during that 2013 experience in Costa Rica, in Panama, when I lost my cane, I went from, I don't want to use it to, oh my goodness, what am I gonna do without it? Yeah. Um. So that that was an interesting adventure. And then fast forward a couple years, like 2015 ish, that's what I really lost my vision more.
I was not able to read large print. In fact, I remember applying for grad school and be like, Hey, I would like things in large font, yada yada ya, which they were able to do perfectly. But then a couple months later I was like, oh, I can't read this. Um, [00:11:00] so then I had to learn like quickly how to use the screen readers, teach myself on how to do that with more advanced keyboard commands.
But it was, it was a difficult experience, but very fortunate to have friends that were supportive. Yeah. I won't forget the moment when I. Went to a friend, to another friend's house who, um, had a rescuing, uh, dog business, did boarding and breeding. And that is the moment that really I felt like empowered me to get a dog, a guide dog, because she's like, why?
Well, Juanita, why aren't you? Have you ever applied? Have you ever considered? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know much about dogs. And she's like, Hey, it's okay. She's like, I know somebody. And I know of the experiences. We can look things up, let's do things together. And I did. And, but it was amazing. I got to see the puppies re, excuse me, the puppies be born at her house.
I got to [00:12:00] learn a little bit about the care. You would never guess there's so many dogs in her house. It was so clean. It was, it smell very good. So therefore it was great. I was like, oh, I got a good person in my hands. Yeah. Um, so I applied 2017. I applied, submitted my application. I also went to class on campus and that experience again was wonderful.
Um, yeah, I got Leader Dog Baylor, and again, I was like, oh, I feel more confident now that I had the experiences and the support of my. Friends and family, and more importantly, the individual who showed me a lot about dogs that I was certainly hesitant about. That's right. And of course when I was younger, I'm like, I don't want a dog.
I don't wanna pick up his poop.
Christina: That is not the fun part. I will
Leslie: tell you that for sure. You can't drop a dog down a hole on a a boardwalk. So you know what? That is a good positive. We always talk about the pros and cons. I've never. Considered that. That's right. Can you knock on wood on that [00:13:00] one? That's true.
Don't go knocking any dogs or any dogs falling through
Juanita: holes. Exactly, exactly. So that adventure happened, but I, as you guys mentioned, I was recently on campus. Yeah. And that was honestly because Baylor was an early, early retiree. He was medically careered, uh, medically retired rather. And it also could have been attributed to Covid.
Yeah. Yeah. We placed, the trainer said, We could talk all day. Was it behavioral? Was it medical? Was it, we can talk all day, but the point is, is that I'm not safe and I'm not being independent and I'm having to adapt my, uh, schedule to him. Yeah. And that's not the mission and vision of Leader Dogs. Yeah.
Christina: And that's so important that they're so, our trainers, they're so good at that.
They're good at being honest. Mm-hmm. And open with, you know, why a change needs to happen.
Juanita: Correct. Exactly. And I remember calling. Kind of panicking and I knew deep down I'd be like, Baylor, you're gonna [00:14:00] get fired. But I, it was of course with jokes and things like that, but I knew. I had that gut feeling he was gonna be retired because it was very problematic when he would stop in the middle of what's considered a highway up here in Ena and he would just stop in the middle of the street.
He would just, I'm like, no, no, we cannot do that. That's not safe. Um, but so that happened. He's happily, he's very happy now. Uh, he is with some friends of mine, a family who has another black lab, and Aw, he's happy. He's very content. He loves it. It's. And that's another thing that I didn't realize. Like when I went over the visit, I was like, oh, let's see how he's gonna react.
It made my heart smile when he wasn't interested in me because he was so interested in the other black lab. I'm so interested in the owners that have him now and. Is this interesting? Um, he's very contempt. Yeah. And
Christina: it's gotta be a tough decision [00:15:00] to make. And then also to know you're, you know, you decided to give the dog to a friend.
And I know a lot of our clients probably do the same, where they're like, you know, I can't keep the dog once it's retired as a pet dog, because they might wanna come back for another later dog. So that's, you know, really great to hear that the dog, you know, adapted so well to your, um, friend's home.
Juanita: Exactly. And the only thing that I didn't really think about was also, fortunately my friends were able to support him financially. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately, in 2019, late 2019, early 2020, he had to go down to msu, Michigan State University, did the Vet Killick there, and I was in conversation with the veterinarians on staff at Leader Dogs, and he had a lot of iss well, uh, health issues and, but, I've met these friends that I've, that, um, has him now through Lyons, and I joined Lyons because I know how instrumental Lyons is.
Um, [00:16:00] two liter dog. When I was at that. Um, phase in my life where I'm like, okay, I wanna give back. I wanna do some donations to Leader Dogs and I wanna do things like that. But I was very fortunate to be able to connect with them through Lions and then get that support to go downstate and deal with things like that.
Um, and I'm very fortunate to have an employer that allows me to take time off for a service dog. Yeah. Um, which is, yep. So I was very lucky in that terms of that. But then, I came back in 20, I was expected to come back because of his health In 2019, I also, again had a significant amount of, um, vision loss and to the point it's not usable.
So I was like, oh, I'm not very good with the cane. I haven't used the cane in a while. So I did the orientation mobility, um, refresher, uh, course, and that was phenomenal. That was. Great. Being able to [00:17:00] work with Baylor, also being able to work solely with the cane and do things like that, that, that or o m experience was phenomenal because I did not have the tendency to wanna rely on my vision.
I was able to get all the tips from Tommy, um, that was shared to me and it was phenomenal. So, Then after that I came back. He retired a month after that o and m class. Actually, he retired a month after. In 2021? Uh, no, 2022. Sorry. A year later. Okay. A year later. Um, and then I came back to get a second dog.
Um, in September of 2022, but unfortunately that dog did not work out, um, because of all his health issues. Yeah. And all his medical issues, which I was like, oh no, this is not exciting. I was like, oh no. I felt bad for the dog. Yeah. I did not know what to do. Um,
Christina: Juanita, [00:18:00] what was that experience like for you?
Because that doesn't ha, it happens, but it doesn't happen, you know, with everybody you know. Was your D D M I supportive during this? Because obviously you had to wait a little bit longer than to come back and get matched with the dog you have now. So what was that like for you, kind of going through that transition?
Juanita: Yeah, so it was frustrating, honestly, and emotional. Yeah. Um, because, We don't talk about it in the classes very much, um, as first time handlers. They talk about it with the transitions. Um, but it wasn't really spoken much about it. But my G DMI were very supportive and I also expressed my. Experience two liter dogs.
And I've seen enhancements that Leader Dogs has done. For example, they've added a paragraph regarding, Hey, this may not work out. And I know that has already been instrumental because I had to come back, um, in January [00:19:00] to get my current dog. And I had people discussing, oh, well they added a paragraph. I never thought of it.
And I'm like, yeah, you never think of it. Mm-hmm. It, it was hard. I, I will never forget when. Dr. Wilson came into the, um, residence office there and I was with Rio, which Rio was fortunately able to go back to his puppy razor, but I was with Rio and even though we were a team for solely two and a half days, you get that bond.
Yeah. Um, and I was beyond emotional. I was crying. I was in tears. Because I felt bad for him because I, I remember talking to my instructor, I'm like, oh, his nose is dry. He's drinking excessive amount of water. His poop is X, y, Z. And honestly, I think I was having flashbacks to Bailers experience. Um, and, but again, very supportive.[00:20:00]
The instructors are all very supportive. The client services, and as I tell people, you just don't know about the. The experiences and things like that until, you know, um, and because like I said, we didn't really talk about it in classes, but I know it was discussed more. Um, once I came back for a variety.
Leslie: That's definitely one of those situations that it doesn't happen often, but it does happen and it's good to be prepared about it and think about it or know that it could potentially happen. Um, so thank you for helping us make those changes, cuz I think that's important. Feedback is always really important to us, but I'm glad you had a positive experience and ultimately a positive outcome.
Do you mind telling us a little bit about your current guide dog and how you two are working together now?
Juanita: Of course. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I absolutely agree. It's definitely communication beyond to work with one another. Um, and it's just, it's been a phenomenal experience. And it's also talking about things like with, um, [00:21:00] how to take, like what information you should have to take to the vet, wait for overnight care.
Because I remember when Bay was in the vet's office and they called me and said, well, he hasn't. Relieved himself. I'm like, oh, did you tell him to park? And they literally hung up the phone, told him to park and he finally went, that's so funny. So, and, but it's just different things like that. But with the current dog, um, came back in January and Rezi um, is doing great.
She's a Golden Lab cross and we are doing phenomenal. We actually took a couple local trips, And more recently took a trip to Florida. Ooh. So it's been fun. It's been a lot of fun.
Leslie: Yeah. That's wonderful. I'm curious too, I wanna go back to the very beginning of our conversation cuz you said something that was quite interesting to me, um, and something that somebody else recently brought up to me and we haven't had an opportunity to talk about it.
And sometimes maybe it's difficult to talk [00:22:00] about, but you had mentioned, um, as you were getting started about your vision and how, you know, It took you a while to get used to that and telling people that, you know, it's not your business and you don't have to explain blindness all the time. And I think that's something that, you know, maybe we don't talk about, but why do you think people in the public feel like they.
That you owe them this explanation? Because, so for example, um, I was speaking with a client and she was sharing with me frustration that she has every time she meets somebody. And, you know, their first questions are always just all about blindness in general. And she has to explain to them, you know, how she got there, how she put on her makeup, how she, um, You know, how to clean up after her dog and all these things about just being blind before ever asking a question about her, her personally, who she is, what she does, why she does it, where she came from.
I just wanna, I, I wanna chat about that cuz we weren't able to chat about it previously and you brought it up again and I, I think it's a really important topic for people to think about and consider before, [00:23:00] you know, asking some of those questions and, and when meeting somebody.
Juanita: No, I absolutely agree with you.
I think, I mean, you could look at it from many angles. Mm-hmm. Some people might see as, how could I support you? Some people could see it as, I just wanna be nosy and I don't really care what your thoughts are because you're blind, you're different, so therefore I should know, I should be entitled. Mm-hmm.
Well, maybe another perspective is they're interested and they've never been around a blind person, and I've seen all those perspectives. Um, but wait, for me, it's also very frustrating when you get compared to other blind individuals. Actually, I was in a conversation recently and I was like, whoa. The difference in the experiences that I have are gonna vary from what they or you or someone else will have.
Because we are two different people. We are not the same. Mm-hmm. So [00:24:00] I don't, it's hard. I think a lot of people are interested, but a lot of people think it's, they're entitled to it, but I. As I said, obviously more than happy to share this experience here because I, it's a platform where I think it's essential to talk about it.
Yeah. But at the same time, when I'm walking down the street on a three, four mile walk, no. If that's all you're gonna ask me, no. Forget you.
Christina: Yeah. Well, and that can be exhausting if you just wanna go on a walk with your leader dog, or you're just, you know, trying to go about your daily activity and having so many people just.
Stop you, um, when you're just trying to get from A to B and you're not, you know, it's not something that you brought up that you wanted to talk about. So I can't even
Leslie: Exactly. I think it's interesting to Exactly, you brought up all the different perspectives and reasons. You know, I think most people are coming from a good place, right?
They wanna learn more. They wanna understand what it is that p people who are blind or visually impaired are going. Through or have they live [00:25:00] life. And I think that's a positive thing, right? And it's an opportunity to educate. But I do think that it's something to be talked about and it recognizing that people are people first, right?
Like you're Juanita first, and then you happen to be blind. So making sure that they're taking an opportunity to get to know you. And of course, yeah, I mean, if it's appropriate, ask some questions and take it as a learning opportunity. But I think just bringing it up in conversation and thinking about it and having a perspective.
From both angles is helpful, so I really appreciate you bringing that up. It's a topic that has been on my mind and something you know, I hadn't really considered before. Somebody else had brought it up previously too, and I just think it's a really good topic.
Christina: It is, yeah.
Juanita: Exactly, because I, I think it's also about the different perspectives of like, okay, let's just say a piece of paper or a menu, and I'd be like, okay, could you tell me x, y, Z category or could you tell me, well, how much vision do you have?
Well, no. Can you answer the question? [00:26:00] Mm-hmm. Well, what chicken. I don't see have on the menu or what veggie I don't see have on the me menu, what shrimp I don't see have on the menu what this answers the question. Um, but it's, it's, it's challenging and I think it's more important for everybody to realize.
Just because one person has one experience does not mean it's gonna be the same for the other individual.
Leslie: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really, really good point. Not everybody is the same. Everybody's coming to it with different visual conditions. Yeah. With different experiences and backgrounds. Like you mentioned, you've had a lot of support growing up and you had services available to you in resources, which is absolutely wonderful that.
It's not the case that we hear from a lot of people. Um, so everybody's, you know, just like in life, everybody's bringing a different background and, and different experiences, so I really appreciate
Juanita: that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also like my experiences. That have allowed me, like for example, going abroad and losing my cane in the ocean or going abroad to a new [00:27:00] country, traveling by myself has taught me to be more independent and advocate for myself.
But I'm also very fortunate to have my friends be very direct and blunt with me. Like they will call me out on things where I'll be like, oh, I feel like I can't do this because of my visual impaired more, or my blindness. And they'd be like, okay, like. Shake you up and be like, yes you can. And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
You're right. You're right. You're right.
Christina: Those sound like really good friends. Yes. You have a great, it sounds like a, such a great support system. And you know, even on this podcast, we have had so many clients and I, nobody has had the same story. No. People have related to things in different ways, but nobody has had the same story.
And I think that is so important and thank you so much for sharing that with us. Yeah,
Leslie: of course, of course. Thank you. Juanita. I can't believe we're already out of time. This went by incredibly fast. Um, but thank you so much for joining us today and just sharing about all of your experiences with Leader Dog and just life in general.
I think, you [00:28:00] know, it's good to learn from everybody, so thank you for sharing.
Juanita: Of course. Thank you all very much and I hope everyone has fun with the 5K in.
Leslie: Ah, thank you and thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Christina Heppner. We hope you enjoyed learning about Juanita.
Please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness. If you'd like to learn
Christina: more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head the leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas.
If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.