Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kunow. So not too long ago we got an email from a listener who wanted us to talk about silent cars and how to navigate that with o and m and um, or with a guide dog and how that works if you come to campus for our programs.
Leslie: It is definitely a huge topic in the field of just, I think blindness and low vision and travel in general. It's a huge problem having all these really like electric, quiet, quiet cars or . The cars that I know, mine does this, when they pull up to a stop sign or a stoplight, it like shuts down and then restart.
So if you think about that as somebody who's traveling blind or low vision and you approach an intersection and there's a car stop there and there's no motor running, you don't hear it. Yeah. Right. So you might not know. Um, so it's definitely something that is being talked about and you know, is there something that they can put in the cars that's kind of [00:01:00] like a constant sound of some kind.
Um, so I don't know of any . Big things that are happening that way, but there are certainly some different strategies. Timothy, do you have any thoughts on this?
Timothy: Well, I think the National Federation of the Blind and a CB is also trying to . Trying to get Congress to pass a law. I believe that there'd be a little humming noise or a little buzzing noise because I mean, there's, I don't like 'em myself.
I, I, I, I, I can't imagine being totally blind and have to cross the street, and you don't know if there's a car there or not, or if one's coming down the street and I hate the cars that turn on and off.
Leslie (2): Yeah, yeah.
Timothy: But it is just something that there's really no fix for unless somebody does something.
There's gotta be a buzzing noise or a little humming or something. And if you're a loud area, how are you going to hear that? So that's something that's, it's scary and you get, and you know, glacier, if I stepped out in front of a car, she has that, uh, where she'll turn around hopefully and turn around and go back to the curb.
And, uh, somebody's gotta do something and I [00:02:00] don't know what to do other than make a noise on the car.
Leslie: I. Yeah. Yeah. That intelligent disobedience is certainly a perk to having a guide dog. Yeah. Over a cane. I don't say it often, folks. Yeah, I'm just kidding. But what is intelligent disobedience for those
Christina: who don't
Leslie: know?
Yes. So the intelligent disobedience is for our guide dogs, right? We always, it is up to our clients or the handlers. To determine the best time to cross. So, you know, believe it or not, guide dogs actually don't know when to cross the street. Um, which I know we've talked about on here. It's up to the handler to really analyze the intersection, determine how it's controlled, if it's a stop sign, controlled, light, controlled, um, all of those different things, the shape and, and when the best time to cross is with the least amount of risk, um, is up to the handler.
So when the handler decides, you know, it's time to go, they'll say in this glac glacier forward, and, . Glacier has been taught intelligent disobedience so that if you know Timothy were to make the wrong decision and it's not the best time to grow, glacier is taught to stop and to not go. So sometimes that might happen with a quiet car, right?
Timothy, [00:03:00] if you walked to an intersection and said Glacier forward, but you didn't hear a car running to your side, you know, glacier might not go. She might refuse to go.
Timothy: I always, you know, like I say, if I'm going from of those crosswalks, I always wait about a second or two. I always give myself a little extra time crossing the street, so I don't immediately go.
When the say, the crosswalk tells me go, I just wait a couple seconds just so that intersection's clear and then I tune in my ears. 'cause if maybe, possibly if a quiet car was coming by, you might hear the tires or something. I don't know. There's. There's really not a good answer to this problem, and it is a huge problem.
And with everybody buying these electric cars or the, or like you, Chris, Christine, Leslie, that's got the, uh, one that shuts off at the mm-hmm . Stoplight, you really gotta be tuned into those sections really well.
Leslie: Yeah. And in my car, right, I can override it so I can turn it off. So certainly something to can, you know, if I'm traveling in an area with.
High pedestrian numbers. But uh, the other thing too, right, there are some different strategies to keep yourself safe out there when traveling. Um, [00:04:00] with o and m or really o and m, kind of with a guy, Doug, you can't do. But it's kind of like a step and pause has really, research has shown to be really I impactful.
Um, so as you kind of take that first step to cross the street, you kind of step and pause for a second. Um, you can even put your hand out towards. Your first, you know, line of traffic or your first threat, if you will, the first risk. Um, and that is really good and that the pause gives you the traveler an instant to kind of like step back, like say I made the wrong decision.
I can still take that step back, um, before going forward. So that can be really helpful. There's flagging techniques with a cane, so again, it's just a good way to communicate with drivers, like, Hey, I'm going so. Hopefully right as a traveler, if we don't hear or see that quiet car, hopefully they see us, um, as the driver.
So some things that we can do on our end, our flag with our cane, kind of, you know, swinging it in a different way to . To make some movement. 'cause movement often draws the eye in. Um, so you can certainly do that. And then [00:05:00] again, with the guide dogs, we have certainly that intelligent disobedience, which we don't wanna rely on regularly, but it is a perk, um, because it's a lot of natural instinct for the dog too, right?
That dog doesn't wanna get hurt or injured. Um, so their natural instinct is to kind of get outta the way or to not go. So, . Great for the question. We really appreciate it. Um, and maybe we'll have a guest on and talk about it further 'cause I think we could certainly dive into it. Absolutely. But if you have questions, um, and you wanna talk through specific strategies, please give us a call at Leader Dog and, and we'll hook you up with an OM instructor or GDI to talk those through.
But it's a problem in the, in the field and hopefully, like you said, Timothy, people are advocating groups like NFB and A CB are out there advocating, um, to make some noise. So. Thank you. That's a wonderful question.
Timothy: We need to make noise and those cars need to make noise. .
Leslie: Exactly. I like it. Let's get rowdy out there.
So, well, wonderful. That's such a great topic and we really, really appreciate it. Please do keep sending those in, but we're gonna get started because today's guest is [00:06:00] here to share both his personal and professional experiences with us.
Christina: Mark Hemes is the community program manager for Disability Network Washtenaw Monroe Livingston, and earned his MBA from Cleary University in December of 2024.
He holds a Bachelor's degree in geology from Albion College and has experience in environmental conservation, teaching campers who are blind, training, AI, and coaching individuals with disabilities. Mark is also a proud leader dog client, working with Leader Dog Bogey.
Timothy: Mark, welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure having you here today.
Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself please?
Mark: Yeah. Thank you. Uh, thank you Timothy, and thank you Leslie and Christina for having me today. So, yeah, I'm. Mark Hymes. I grew up actually with, uh, retinitis pigmentosa, so my entire life I've had low vision and as probably a normal child would, and had like those experiences out with friends riding the streets on bicycles, I just couldn't see at night.
I [00:07:00] used a flashlight and, um, a lot of different things, uh, tools. But once I got older and I realized my vision was getting a lot worse. Or more worse. And I needed to kind of use those mobility aids, right? The white can, the public transportation, the different things you do growing up, like all of my friends were getting their driver's license and driving vehicles and cars and getting those really cool fancy cars, especially the electric ones that actually make noise 'cause their parents made them turn on that sound.
Playing back to your, uh, earlier conversation Anyway. But I couldn't do that. Right. I couldn't with my vision and lack thereof. So I, I learned a lot of different techniques and I grew up in Ann Arbor, so there's a lot of different options available to me for like public transportation and getting around, and it's really been, I.
A piece that has been missing ever since I moved up to Livingston County up in Howell to where there's really not a whole lot [00:08:00] of actual public transportation where you can just hop on and go anywhere you want kind of a thing. You have to look at it in advance and get all that and that type of stuff.
So as I kind of navigated careers in different fields, I really kind of found a home with a disability network, and that's been kind of the place that has . Really taken me in and has been a very empowering company and organization to work for. And especially up here in, in Howell where I'm expanding a lot of, uh, a lot of our reach has been very cool to do that.
Leslie: That's wonderful. How long have you been at Disability Network?
Mark: I. I've, uh, I've worked here, um, since, uh, 2019. Okay. And, uh, I was a volunteer before doing a social program at one of the local, uh, crepes and games, which was kind of a cool concept of like breakfast slash brunch and a whole bunch of different board games.
Leslie: Very nice. And so if you started there in 2019, [00:09:00] had you come to Leader Dog prior to that?
Mark: I. Yeah, so in 2016, okay, I was, uh, trained with Leader Dogs as leader dogs, and then I didn't know what I was getting. Somebody said I was getting the biggest dogs they had, and it ended up being a 65 pound golden retriever named Bogey, and he is absolutely amazing.
We've been a lot of different places. He is explored many different, uh, regions of the states and actually Canada too. We went across borders too for a lot of cool experiences and, uh, been to many different locations and stuff. But he, his favorite thing I think is the, is the water . I guess you probably shouldn't tell eat dogs that.
listen,
Leslie (2): we get it. They're dogs. Absolutely. But
Mark: when he, when he is off, when he is outta work and, you know, off working and. My wife is nearby. We can let 'em be a dog too. Yes,
Leslie: absolutely. That's important. And it's important to share too, right? Like there are so many misconceptions about guide dogs out there that they don't ever get a chance to [00:10:00] be a guy or a dog.
And they are, they're absolutely, uh, dogs first, almost. So that's wonderful. So you came to Leader Dog in 2016 and then you kinda started a disability network in 2019, and you really do focus, like you mentioned on transportation and travel. Did Bogey have a huge impact on that when moving to Howell and thinking about, right, like you have to maintain those skills and get out and work.
Bogey and limitations in transportation I'm sure can be very challenging. I.
Mark: Oh, that's for sure. He has to get used to, 'cause there's a, a transportation system up here called, uh, lets Transportation, and they go kind of all over and they have like a pair of transit buses and then vans and, and different types of vehicles that bogey has to get used to on, on traveling on.
But then I have to get used to, like I was saying a little bit earlier too, about, uh, growing up in Ann Arbor, getting on a bus and going anywhere, anytime I wanted. Mm-hmm . Just, you have the kind of plan more in advance where you're going. But then thankfully I live in like the [00:11:00] downtown Howell area, so that's relatively walkable.
There's a lot of sidewalks around, which is good in the downtown area. So we definitely brush up on our skills about every day. ? Yeah. Going out and about walking the, the different sidewalks going across the street to the coffee shops.
Christina: Yeah, and that downtown area is very walkable. I've been down there myself, so it's great that you're right in that downtown area.
But this actually, your podcast is gonna air on National Transportation Week, so Oh wow. Yeah. So what if some of your main initiatives with the disability network and transportation?
Mark: Yeah. So especially up here is kind of helping people navigate the system, right? We know for our folks in, uh, in Ann Arbor with, 'cause our, our Disability network cover is Washtenaw County, Monroe County and Livington County.
So there's many different spaces. So like the Washtenaw County Transportation Advocacy has been really taken off. But then here in Livingston, I've actually been the, the chair of our transportation coalition in [00:12:00] Livingston County and . Now am I think on the third year of being the chair of our Livingston County Rosa Parks Transit Equity Day Planning Committee.
And the last three years we, I. Have really set off a prime goal of really getting community members, elected officials at all levels, and businesses and writers, users of public transportation, all in one room to figure out and hash out what their vision of transportation as in Livingston County and what it would look like and how we would get there too.
Of course, there's multiple ways to getting there. Some forms of funding that people don't like to talk about and other forms of advocacy and looking for grants and things that more people are interested in, but there's less of. And so we are kind of at the forefront of that and really leading that advocacy and facilitating a group conversation to work on those details.
Timothy: Hey, mark, I was wondering what were some of the biggest challenges or barriers [00:13:00] with, uh, some of the work that you're experiencing or some of your clients?
Mark: Thank you, Timothy. That's a good question. We, at Disability Network, we, we definitely find that. There is a big need in our area, especially for, of course, one thing we covered transportation, kind of getting around how do they get to their appointments, their work, especially in our area.
But the other pieces that come across too that I, I work on, on a weekly basis are, um, helping people navigate like needs-based programs, kind of like Social Security disability, supplemental security income, SSI, and. Helping them with understanding 'cause people wanna work. So that's not a whole lot of money that you can get under those programs.
And so we kind of help them understand how much they can work that and still receive their public benefits and, and we know that people have difficulty in the workplace with advocating for, for accommodations too. So we help out with that and actually. Every disability network across the country, [00:14:00] because there are 15 different disability networks and centers for independent livings that cover the whole Michigan area.
But there are others throughout the country in every area there should be a disability network or center for independent living that covers our county or the area. So that's kind of exciting. So we, we cover a small area, but there are more in, in other people's counties. So we also cover . Five core services here too, and this is, should be covered along with all the other centers for independent living that are in our area.
So information and referral, of course, giving out resources, advocacy, both systems and, uh, individual. So like I was saying, like with . Advocating for, uh, in different accommodations, but then also advocating at that systems level for change, like for policies for transportation and other pieces. And then individual independent living skills, training, and then peer support.
And the last one is community transition as well to, [00:15:00] so community transition from . It's like that high school age to post high school and and beyond. And then also to from diverting people from going to or needing to go to nursing homes, to living independently in their own area.
Leslie: Yeah. Disability Network is doing some amazing things all around Michigan, like you mentioned.
I know myself and my colleague, Alyssa Otis have gone to the Wayne County Disability Network and we've done presentations, you know, sharing about Leader Dogs for the blind free services and how to get involved. So it's wonderful to have that resource and hopefully covering the whole Michigan landscape to really provide such great resources and all of the work and initiatives that you guys are doing, and really connect people too.
I think one of the things that we talk about as being a huge perk of coming to Leader Dog is . Meeting other people who are going through very similar things and sharing resources and building your support network. Um, so I think there's so many benefits to having that. And just to take us back to the transportation, as you were talking about, not having a lot of public [00:16:00] transportation options, that was something that we were experiencing quite a bit in Rochester where Leader Dogs campus is.
And we recently did get a public . Bus route and a bus stop that's right outside of our campus that'll take us downtown Rochester, and even all the way over to Oakland University and then heading south. It takes all the way to, you know, Royal Oak and beyond. So it's huge and it's made a big impact on people having access to our organization, not just clients, but volunteers and team members and donors, so that transportation is such an important part of people's daily lives.
And you mentioned living in Ann Arbor, you always had access to that. What was so hard, or one of the biggest challenges from going into an environment where it was at your fingertips to then living someplace where it's not as readily available and having to use different models of transportation. How did you handle that?
Mark: It was quite difficult in the beginning to sort of get used to that, that transition, but I think . From being in a downtown area where [00:17:00] things are walkable, I could get most of my needs within a a mile or even three quarters of a mile from my house. So it wasn't difficult. It just means that I would have to walk a little bit more so than I would have to ride.
Leslie: I. Yeah, different. Did you really do a lot of research on the front end of like, looking up where you were gonna live and making sure that you had some nice walkable places?
Mark: Uh, not really. Actually. I moved in, uh, with my now wife in, uh, 2016 when I decided to take a work from home job for a order taking company.
And it was more so kind of the, the convenience of being able to do that. Mm-hmm . And. Kind of combine our incomes together before and figure out how to live together before you get married. ,
Leslie (2): listen, we know that's a challenge, right? There's so many things going into that, right?
Mark: But that's kind of navigating the, the area.
So it kind of just . Was sort of placed into it and I made it how I could, and I joined a local gym. The Planet Fitness is only about a half mile down the road, and there's a sidewalk all the way [00:18:00] along the way to get there. So like most of my needs are, are met in that whole area. But then again, if I needed something larger, I could always hop on the public transportation that I, I needed to just plan it ahead, time, call ahead and, and schedule it.
But now they make it so much easier 'cause there's actually an application that you can book your ride instead of having to call it in.
Leslie: That's good. Timothy, around your area, do you have a lot of access to public transportation or do you use different modes?
Timothy: Well, I'm in a rural area, so only thing I can do is Lyft or Uber.
Or, uh, Cheryl . .
Leslie: Do you have any of the, like the pre-scheduled, like you can call and schedule a ride from your home to Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah,
Timothy: I do a Lyft, like, I, I flew to, uh, Lubbock a couple of months ago and I had a 2:00 AM I had to leave the house at 2:00 AM Oh my gosh. So I had to schedule ride for 2:00 AM to get to the airport.
So I schedule way out in advance. So I know that that's been picked up by somebody and that they are definitely coming, picking me up. So.
Leslie: Do you have like in your community though, that you could [00:19:00] call, like if you had a doctor's appointment or something like that and it would do like door to door service?
Timothy: No. Maybe with my Medicare that I got, maybe I can do that. So maybe I think I get six or 12 visits. But with Cheryl, she's home all the time now retired, but I think I can do that through my Medicare. Other than that, no, there's nothing in my area that's, uh, for people with disabilities or anything in my town.
Leslie: Yeah, in a lot of communities there's typically some sort of transportation that you can kind of get that door to door service. Um, but it is, you know, it's not convenient in the sense that you have to call ahead and make an appointment and you know, it's. Sometimes not as reliable. So, um, it's always good to have backup options and, and why Mark, your work is so important in these transportation initiatives and making sure that people have access to transportation to fill all of their needs.
Mark: Yeah, you're exactly right. Timothy, I wanted to ask you too, 'cause you can get Uber and Lyft in your rural area 'cause we Yes. We don't get that here.
Timothy: Wow. . Yeah. Uh, well I'm out in the suburbs of Atlanta, so I'm close to Atlanta. So the, yeah. [00:20:00] So there we go. My town's probably about 20,000 people, which compared to Atlanta's small.
Christina: Yeah.
Timothy: I'm thankful for the Lyft and Uber and at least in my area, 'cause that's how I used to navigate while Cheryl was still working. Yeah. I would go to doctor visits, but not everybody can do that in some of these towns and a lot of towns don't have the budget for this stuff. So, uh, that's one downside of being in a small town, I guess, like I am.
Yeah. And, but at least I got an alternative.
Leslie: Yeah. And that's expensive too, you know, to be able to have the funds do that. And as we know, there are so many ride share concerns too, of traveling with the guide dog. So, um. Just lots of things to consider, and we talk about this quite often, but travel and transportation is probably one of the biggest barriers for people who are blind or visually impaired.
Would you guys both agree?
Timothy: Yeah. Yep. Now with Lyft and Uber, there's a thing in there now that the driver already knows that you've got a guide dog. You fill that out now so they see it when they, they accept your ride, which is a great thing. So I've been turned down a couple. I told you last a couple [00:21:00] months ago, I got turned down 'cause I had a cane.
and I told the driver I was blind and I had a cane, and two minutes later he canceled my ride. So it, yeah, it's, it's, it's wild. So, yeah. It would be nice to have some kind of transportation in towns, but not, like I said, not all. Everybody's offered that.
Christina: Yeah. And Mark, I, how does someone get involved with the disability network if they're in your area or in an area that has a disability network?
Mark: Oh yeah, definitely. So we are connected with different disability networks too. So like we can, if you even call us, we can . Kind of refer you to the, the one in your area as well. But most likely, uh, it's really simple as just search disability network or centers for independent living in your county area.
And, uh, you should be able to get the general phone number for that and then their information or referral specialist can get you to the right resource or information or even programs too. But for us more specifically, our Livingston County office, we just opened it in, uh, last July, and we're [00:22:00] here right in downtown Howell.
It's actually like a thousand feet from my house, which is even better. Don't have to get on any public transportation to get there.
Leslie (2): Yeah. .
Mark: Um, but yeah, it was to give us a call and we can help with different resources, informations, even if you think you have a disability or something that is affecting your life in a way that you may need supports with, then that, uh, reason to give us a, a phone call.
Our definition of disability is way more broader than any government agency out there.
Leslie: That's wonderful. Well, thank you Mark, so much for spending the morning with us here and sharing about your personal life, but also the disability network.
Mark: Yeah. Thank you for having me.
Leslie: Absolutely. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast.
I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Habner. We hope you enjoyed learning about Mark and the Disability Network. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at [00:23:00] (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.