Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the taking the lead podcast, where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hapner with my cohost, Leslie Hoskins in Timothy Cuneo dinner in the dark is right around the corner. And Leslie and I got to see a little sneak peek of a video. [00:00:20] Timothy, can you guess what video
Leslie: we did.
Timothy: I haven't even seen it yet. What's up with that.
Christina: It's not done yet, but we got a sneak peek at the raw cut and it's.
Leslie: It's wonderful. So if anybody is still considering joining dinner in the dark, please do. [00:00:40] It's a great little story about Timothy and he kind of shares his experience and the impact that glacier has had on his life.
Um, and Timothy, you just do such an amazing job of sharing your story and your experiences. It was absolutely perfect. Definitely brought some tears to our eyes. And I've heard your story several times. Um, so well done. Also, I have to say. [00:01:00] Absolutely in love, loved watching you in glacier travel in the snow.
Timothy: It was terrible. It was terrible.
Christina: Hey Timothy, you said terrible in that video though. And you didn't say terrible.
Timothy: Well, I know it's being filmed, so there's different. And a lot of people don't know why we were doing the interview. My stomach was growling so [00:01:20] bad. You had to do four or five takes. It was embarrassed.
Christina: All of the behind the scenes right now.
Leslie: Well, I will tell you that. As soon as we watched it. And you said, terrible, not terrible. I was texting Christina. I was like, did you hear that? Yeah.
Christina: He knows how to say it [00:01:40] well, and you know, you can still get the kits. Um, if you live near the leader dog campus in Rochester Hills, Michigan, you can come and pick up your kit.
If not, we will mail it to you. In hopes that it will get there on time before dinner in the dark. But I just kinda want to share a little bit about what's in these kids. Um, we've been packing them, so it's really [00:02:00] cool to actually finally see them all coming together. But, um, there's two blindfolds because you'll be doing dinner in the dark.
So you need those blood folds to bibs. You get some semblance of wine glasses, which are super cute. You can apron. I adore aprons. So, and then you actually get, um, charcuterie board. [00:02:20] So it's a wood board that, um, you can make your charcuterie recipe on and you get all these recipes, um, and you'll get access to this whole pre event website, um, which has all these videos with recipes and a professional chef. It's great. Um, so definitely want to take advantage of that [00:02:40] because you can attend. Anywhere. And I think last year we had people from like 22 different states attending from what I heard. So very cool because that's like all over the US so,
Leslie: yeah. So we look forward to everyone joining us. And again, Timothy.
Nice job on the [00:03:00] video. Um, it was really, really well done and very heartfelt. So I can't wait for you to actually get to see it once they finish the final touches, I guess
Timothy: I'll be looking forward to that
Leslie: email. Well, good. Well, today on our episode, we have two incredibly special guests. Our guests are siblings and both [00:03:20] clients have leader dogs for the blind.
They both have different journeys and experiences with leader dogs. Honestly, so happy to have them joining us today to share their stories.
Christina: Yes, Zachary and Kayla Penn zone are from Carbondale, Pennsylvania, and both phone leader, dog at separate times in their lives that can kill are both really busy with school and [00:03:40] work are so we're so happy that they've been able to fit us into their schedules and share about their journeys with vision loss and the leader dog program.
Timothy: Hi, Zach and Kaylyn. Thank you guys for showing, showing up today and being on the show. Can you guys tell us a little bit more about yourself and let's start with Kayla?
Kayla: Yeah, so I am a recent graduate of Kings [00:04:00] college, uh, which is not too far from our hometown. I currently work for AAA the auto group who is partnered with leader logs.
That was kind of cool. Uh, during this. I was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa. When I was 14, I walked into a parking meter in broad [00:04:20] daylight. And, uh, because we knew something was wrong at that point. My mom yelled at me to get off my phone at first. You know, um, that'll happen in kind of from there, I heard about lyric and some different resources that were out there and I was all for summer camp.
So I came out to summer camp in 2018. Um, I was a counselor or I [00:04:40] came out in 2017. I was a counselor in 2018. I left, came back for a week later and got leader dog chain, who is a yellow lab who just turned five. And then from there I did an internship at Lear dog and found. Home right now, worked with AAA the off club group.
Leslie: I love your [00:05:00] story, Kayla and I got to be at camp with you. Of course, those couple of years. And we had so much fun. Um, before we hear a little bit from Zach, can you just tell us a little bit more about camp that's one program? We haven't talked a whole lot about if you can just give us a little synopsis.
Kayla: Yeah. So it’s, a week long of, uh, I think there's like 15 or 20 different [00:05:20] kids from different areas. Um, across the U S we all came together for a week and did different events like, uh, beef, kickball, baseball. Um, everyone's favorite was dog day. Obviously you got to work with a dog, a guide dog, and then CDMA.
Um, which was really cool because when I came back into the counselor, um, which is [00:05:40] kind of who help counselor kind of helps with summer camp and, um, wrangling different groups and whatnot. Cause there's a lot of moving pieces that go on. Um, I got to work with canyon, which was really, really cool. Um, but yeah.
Counselor, you guys did, you did do, or like self-defense and like different things. So it's a lot of cool different days to, to learn different [00:06:00] techniques and threaten you in all the different activities. You're learning orientation and mobility skills with a cane and navigation skills and, um, You have a DTS?
I can't think about Chuck or breeze and, um, used to work with one of those if you haven't before. So it's just a ton of fun and a lot of learning and, uh, [00:06:20] just so much fun. I can't even describe it any other way. Wow.
Christina: Sounds like a blast. So like, I want to go, um, So cool that you got to work with your future guide dog and didn't even know it.
I love that. Um, so let's move into Zach. Can you tell us about yourself? [00:06:40]
Zach: Yes. So hi everyone. I'm super excited to be here today, a looking forward to it. Um, so my name is Zach I'm, like you said, I went to, uh, from Carbondale, but I recently just graduated from my undergrad at Maryland, which is in Scranton, which is very close to our hometown.
Even closer to Cain for Kayla was at, [00:07:00] and I'm currently living. I just recently moved. To Harrisburg, PA and I'm here from law school at winder Commonwealth law school. Um, my kind of story with leader dog is I was very reluctant. So when Kayla, when they found out everything with Kayla stopping off the parking meter, you know, the doctor said it was genetic and you know, me and my twin sister needs to get attached to [00:07:20] them.
But my, my twin does not have a RP, but I do. And I was. 16. Oh 17. When I had my permit, I was learning. And so I was very like frustrated with everything and I did not want any help because I was like, you know, I am a very avid hiker kayaker, everything. I look, I live in the outdoors and I was like, how could I [00:07:40] be legally blind?
And like, how can I have all this when I'm almost 17 learning how to drive? So I was very reluctant to do anything. He gets any kind of help at first. But then when Kayla came home with Kane, I really saw. Well, you know, we just did a walk around the neighborhood cause just to kind of show us what Kane does.
And I was like, [00:08:00] wow, I'm actually missing a lot in the world. And then I looked out the door, the Wiener dog, and I went, um, that following November and uh, Kayla with.
Leslie: And so I'm just so curious about this because I find this fascinating. So Kayla, you know, diagnosed with RP where you guys both diagnosed then at the same time, kind of like Kayla first and then Zach kind of right out.[00:08:20]
Kayla: Yeah.
Leslie: Okay. Oh my gosh. So then, you know, Kaitlin kind of, I guess it sounds like more embraced it and was ready to kind of take on some new experiences and dive into that world a little bit more than you were Zack. So Kayla returns with cane, her guide dog, and she's at this point, Ben Toledo dog. This is her third time.
Cause she's [00:08:40] now been there for camp twice and guide dog wants. And up until that time, zero interest in guide dogs, anything like that. But Kayla comes home with Kane and that just changed everything for you.
Kayla: Yeah.
Zach: Yeah. Yeah. That's the simple version. I was just very stubborn and I did cane training and stuff in school.
Like we [00:09:00] had people from our local flying association come and teach us like patient braille and cane skills. And I did know how to do them, but I was just so set in my ways. Like I'm a boy scout and I still even now go hiking and hiking, camping, kayaking. And I was like, you know, I've made it this long in my life.
You know, I don't need help. Um, [00:09:20] cause I thought I was cheating enough and yeah, we lose, it was just like a short walk around. There's like a trail by our house. So we went down, which is like a couple blocks. So we didn't walk far whatsoever and you know, came stop at something. And I was like, what is he doing?
And he was like, oh, you know, there's a bump here. Now, if I can just kept walking because I was trying to watch them, I definitely tripped over it. [00:09:40] And I was like, wow, I'm actually mission more in this world than I thought. And just. They work. And now at this point I've been working with a cane for over a year, maybe close to two.
And I just didn't like the cane because one, it got a lot of, I don't know I do like it now, but I was, I feel like I get a [00:10:00] lot more information from wings than I ever do, which, uh, with the.
Timothy: Well with both of you being diagnosed with RP, I've got another brother and my family who's got RP. Did it bring you guys closer together knowing that you guys are going to do the same journey
Zach: in your life?
Kayla: Um, I'll answer the first I, I say so in certain ways, [00:10:20] like, I think at first it was frustrating for me because I was embracing it and I was like, why can't you get this through your head? Like, I went to so many summer camps at leader, dog and other associations, and I was just doing so much to learn. I always knew something wasn't there and suffering wasn't right.
But we never knew until I was 14. Um, but [00:10:40] after Zach started become more accepting and stuff like that, we were able to share our experiences together. And now we do, what's called Camden. Before you take both dogs, we walk together, we hike together. Um, little wings, kayaks Kane does not pain swim. So the two of them are just like best friends, which kind of makes us even they're closer.
Cause they always want to be doing stuff together. [00:11:00] Even if they're working.
Zach: And just to echo Lacalle I a hundred percent at the beginning, I was like, Kayla was doing all this stuff and I was thrilled. I was so happy to see her, um, be happy with content. And I was like, you know, I'm, I'm living my life. I'm high, I'm kayaking.
I'm doing whatever I wanted to do. I don't need to have all this [00:11:20] stuff. And then once I started accepting and, um, doing this, it really does bring it together. Just a note and maybe you experienced with your brother, but just to have somebody that can, I went to the doctor and. Basically dates are like people our age, you know, Kayla and I are in our early twenties and people don't go to the doctor as frequently as we do.
So [00:11:40] it's when we get frustrated too, with, you know, the cons of being visually impaired. It's nice to have somebody else to bend to that understands
Leslie: that. I think that is so important. Zack, I talk about that a lot on here of just having a support network of somebody you can call during those situations because there's nobody else that can relate to it.
Except for somebody who's also going through it. So [00:12:00] I'm so happy that you guys have each other, um, to kind of support each other through all of this and share resources and experiences and stuff like that. I'm curious. Um, so Kayla, you said you ran into a parking meter and I've heard that story a couple of times and I do think it's so funny.
Cause as a parent, I would, my first thought was. Look up, what are [00:12:20] you doing? Get off your phone, stop looking over there, like focus. Um, but Zach, did you have any of those moments at all, or I guess recognize that something wasn't right with your vision prior to Kayla and you being diagnosed
Zach: for me? No. So, um, what we learned on pretty quickly is because of my years [00:12:40] in Scouts, I adapted in scan constantly and Kayla never did.
So that's why she, you know, growing up. You know, pick on kill according to beat my sister. And I like, um, like she was the, she was the comedy sibling, like a cheddar. And I would be like, oh yeah, Kayla, she's calling me as soon as she is. You know, [00:13:00] it comes awful now that we know that it's, but it's the truth.
I just scanned a lot. But once they started saying stuff, like when I went to the doctor, like you have this or that, or, um, for me, like what I noticed right after it was. I have no night vision. Like he's like, can you see stuff at night? I was like, no, it's dark out. You know? And I had no idea there's [00:13:20] you can't see what somebody else sees, like an average human or person and some of the doctors like, yeah, do you have any trouble seeing at night?
And I was like, sometimes, but I got this big flashlight from when I'm camping and it's not a big deal. Usually. Can you see anything at night? And I said, no, why? He's like, well, that's not normal. And I was like, oh, um, so no, not as all Kayla really had is it was. [00:13:40] Yeah, not that we're crazy like that. Like Kayla.
I
Kayla: will say, as a child, my mother took us try to go away many times because he would run into the car. Cause he didn't have any depth perception.
Leslie: She's like, wait a minute.
Zach: I [00:14:00] didn't even, I don't have 2020 without glasses. So once I got glasses, And we thought we were good. I was like three. Yes. I did forget about that.
Kayla: Yeah.
Christina: And you know, so you guys have had this happening, you know, since you were young and we've talked to some clients who, you know, they have complete [00:14:20] vision and then they lose their vision.
So it's interesting to hear from both of you that you didn't know what you should normally be seen, what a normal. Person with normal vision would be 20, 20 vision would be seen. So I think that's so interesting. Cause you're talking about how you would scan it and you just thought, oh, nobody else can see at night.
Um, [00:14:40] and so for both of you, I mean, I guess we'll start with Kayla. I mean, when you, um, came back with your guide dog, did you feel prepared, um, and like ready to kind of navigate this new world with your.
Kayla: Um, so kind of, so when I, so I got can a little bit [00:15:00] differently because I was a minor. When I applied for a guide dog, I was 18 once I got him.
So we had someone come out to our house. I think it was John. I don't remember fully who had to evaluate our home in our backyard, in the valley. We need to make sure that I was capable of taking care of guide dog. Um, and by minor, I was 17. [00:15:20] So there's a little bit of a difference there, but that kind of helped me prepare for Kane.
And then at that point I had already made some friends that had guide dogs. So I was like, oh my gosh, what am I, what am I doing? What, what do I need? Like, it's like, almost like you're bringing home a child. Like you have to get a crate, you have to get food. You have to get all of these things to prepare for [00:15:40] this next part of your life.
But I say like journeying through it. Yes. I was mentally prepared to have a dog and start gaining more independence. Without revision. I was so dependent on my mother or my siblings or someone because I knew I couldn't see something, especially after diagnosis. [00:16:00] And there wasn't much cane training at that point.
Amy so much independence. And I knew that literally within five minutes of working with him, like I was like, this is going to be a whole new life that I don't even know what we're going to experience yet. And we've experienced so much in the matter of four and a half years that we've spent together. So yes or [00:16:20] no, if that kind of answers the question.
I
Leslie: cannot believe it's better word a half years when he just said that, that crazy to me, four and a half years gala. Wow. Timeshare is going fast. That's putting a lot of things in perspective for me here. But other thing that I think is really interesting about your guys's story, which, I mean, there's just so many things, but [00:16:40] you guys actually worked with the same guy, dog mobility instructor while you were here on campus.
Is that true?
Zach: Yeah, we were both with team one. It just worked out that. We went six months apart in the, like a cycle of everything. And we both had the same trainer. Now, Tina, I think, you know, you'd have to [00:17:00] ask someone to and leader Dawn for the inside scoop, but this is just like the big stories I remember hearing.
We both had Alyssa who is amazing and part of the team one, but for me it was a little bit different because I'm pretty sure. Train wins for a few months, but Alyssa, like our wrestled Tina. So I could be her cause she wanted, she wanted [00:17:20] the sibling package, but then since they want to make sure wings was okay with other dogs living with another dog, then the other trainer, Heidi was resisting.
Pardon or something at that point. So she took the wings home for like two weeks and everything like that. So all of them have like a hand in T1 for me, but I think Kayla, [00:17:40] I need to listen just raised, raised entry and Kane.
Christina: What was that like? The introducing Canaan wings for the first time,
Zach: I was super excited for it because like, you know, I want to wings to be like the fastest, you know, everything comes to me with.
You know, far superior than cane.[00:18:00]
So, you know, we were very cautious case Cain at this point has been living at the house and living in the backyard for. You know, almost six months before wings is even an idea. And so when we got home, we have a little driveway before the thing we had took the two dogs out and did like [00:18:20] almost like circles, you know, and slowly got closer and closer.
And that's what Alyssa advised us to do. Um, you don't have to put off and gave him like a long leash and got them used to the center of each other. And then we both walked in together and the gate, so they kind of knew the backyard was a neutral territory. Once they got come through. We let them play [00:18:40] the tool and just ran all around our yard and they were sniffing each other and checking each other out, like wings would run away.
Kane would run away, come back. And once they kind of got tired out, we both put them on leash and then just kind of walked through the house together. So then they can kind of feel like, you know, Kayla is. Kane and Kane, Kayla and Kane, sorry, nothing. And Cain had such a [00:19:00] good relationship with alcohol wins and I, we're still a new partnership.
It's still had that trust and seeing the four of us just kind of go through each room together and everything like that. I really think it showed the dogs that they live live together peacefully. And now you have to remember, we were only home for a little bit because we were both [00:19:20] in college and this was over Christmas break.
So they, by the time they got used to each other, we both left. We go back to school. And then once we came back from that summer break, they became best friends. They were a little weary of each other, but they both were like, Hey, what's up like, kind of say hi to a coworker walking in the hall, but they became friends over that summer.
For sure. So you
Timothy: guys are at college. So how [00:19:40] did it feel having a guide dog at college for the first time you were using a cane, but now you got a guide dog. Can you tell us about the differences and how you're traveling during the day?
Kayla: Yeah, so I would clean, it was overwhelming at first because so Cain was the first in Lisa's too.
So Kay was the first guy dog ever on our campus to live on our [00:20:00] campus at our college. So it was kind of new for everyone, including myself. Um, but so we had a single dorm. It was just me and Kane in a room, basically living together. We were roommates. Uh, which kind of turned into forever roommates now. So I think I'll keep them.
Um, but it was just kind of overwhelming [00:20:20] because you're here on a new campus trying to figure out, okay, where are my classes? What building is this? What building is that? As you're trying to, um, train with your partner and get them used to the campus and Houston. So basically I didn't really realize it until week one tank picked up immediately.
He's like [00:20:40] Flint based on, I am, we're going to this building lady, I don't know where you think you're going, but we're going to this building. And I was like, okay, you know what, let's go. And I don't think it would be as easy if I had a white cane just walking around campus. Um, plus I think it opens another atmosphere for people to be more friendly and more [00:21:00] engaging, like.
It's a dog. Everyone loves dogs. Everyone wants to pet the dog. Of course, whereas a white cane people kind of just look at you and you're like, say like, what is that? They might not even know what it is or they kind of just think something wrong with you because you have one. Whereas they see a dog they're like, it could be for a million reasons, but they're like, [00:21:20] that is so cool.
There's a dog in my building or there's a dog in my class. So for me, it just kind of built relationships. Our relationship. Cause I was able to trust him more. And by week two, every semester came home. This is our schedule for Monday, Wednesday, Friday. This is our schedule for Tuesday, [00:21:40] Thursday. And like one-off he get used to, but he just knew immediately pick up on, on everything which made my life so much easier.
Trying to figure out this, this new world, this new life and at college.
Leslie: Absolutely. And Zach is your experience. Yes.
Zach: It definitely has been similar in the sense of [00:22:00] opening up doors for you. Because once I realized, I didn't realize once I realized I had a hard time seeing at night, or I had no night vision, I really didn't go places at night and even on campus, like, you know, I lived on campus that was even an RA for a few years and everything like that.
So. Well, having wings made me feel comfortable. One going to [00:22:20] events with a larger crowd because I was always so self-conscious and embarrassed when I would bump into people, you know, you have no personal vision. It's, it's real easy. Sometimes just the bumped people. And I always felt bad. So I would just seclude myself from that.
So Wednesday. So much freedom. And I think this is a key point, and I don't know if this was the same for Kayla and we never really talked about it. [00:22:40] Um, I was the second youngest. There was another, you know, in my class when I went out and got part of the wings that of everybody, people were older, you know, older than me, besides one of the other girls, her name was Maddie was there.
And I think it's key for people who are, who are listening, you know, finishing episode, if you're interested or in you are, I think it's [00:23:00] key to go. I dunno, like, I think it's key to go younger. And instead of just waiting some people, I feel like might wait until you're older to go get partnered with a Dawn.
But again, I get so much more information for wings and I, and like he'll sit in that routine and stuff and everything like that. It, it also helps you become even more productive of the [00:23:20] car. Like I have to stay on routine cause not it's going to mess up wings. It is very difficult. I think being in college with a dog sometimes because of people wanting to pet them.
But if you said like from ground rules, like probably within two weeks of me bringing wings to campus, cause he was the first dog just like cane and everything. I'm married with [00:23:40] that people knew, Hey, this is Zach he's visually impaired wings is a, he's a cool dog. And he helps him. He has a full-time job and I think it's key to.
You can make up those boundaries where I'd be like, okay, there's a big art field. Like I was like, people, my friends, people come play, hang out with us because they are dogs too. They don't work 24 7. And I think [00:24:00] being younger now looking back, it was the right move to go and get partnered over the dog earlier in life instead of waiting, because originally that was a conversation I had back and forth with.
My mom was with Kayla. I was like, you know, I think this is cool, but maybe I'll wait till I'm older and out of college. And I'm still glad I did. That
Christina: is awesome to hear. And I love that you mentioned that they're [00:24:20] dogs too, so they do play. And I was going to ask that before you even said it, that was on my mind is how do you play on a college campus?
How do you let the dog, you know, enjoy and have fun? But I think that's such a cool way because the dog gets to interact with so many other people when they're, you know, just being a dog and just playing, what was it like, I guess. [00:24:40] Dorm and like having to take the dog out and that sort of stuff. I'm really interested to hear about
Kayla: the, yeah.
So my experience, I lived in a female freshmen dorm for two years, and then I lived in an apartment building. A year and a half and in the freshmen door, it was just me and [00:25:00] him. So like you have a routine, like you knew, came to school out at 6 30, 11, like the times they're trained to go out. So thankfully our campus had like a rock area kind of similar to one of their dogs at the dogs typically go, go on.
So I would just take him out and Cain got in the habit that this is the spot [00:25:20] where. And then transferring into the apartment building can have more room. Cause there was a hallway, there was more bedroom and living room space. So he got to play a little bit more than a dorm, but still going out there was, um, like bushes and like step stuff like that.
But there for dogs, maybe they're not. [00:25:40] Specifically like, oh, here's a dog park or here's like a gated sense that area for a dog, but you kind of have to work with what you have and have that open dialogue with your campus. Because I sat down with the head of our, um, president's life and I was like, Hey, like what works for you guys?
What will work for us? And just kind of having that dialogue of what. [00:26:00] What they think would be best and what would be best for the dog. You just kind of have to advocate and have the conversation and that kind of worked best for our campus because it is such a small.
Leslie: Absolutely. I think that's some good points here.
I know Zach was talking about like when to get a dog earlier, later on in life, and those are huge decisions and things to think about. There's lots of [00:26:20] pros and cons to a guide dog versus a cane. There's lots of things to think about and weigh out, uh, because. It is a big choice and it's like, I think Kayla, you mentioned it previously.
It's like having a baby. Um, and some people are not ready for a baby freshman year of college. Sometimes they're never going to be ready for a baby. Uh, and that's okay too, you know, [00:26:40] a guide dog, certainly isn't for everyone. And you guys are expressing. All of the work that goes into it, not just caring for the dog, but thinking about all these big picture things.
So where's the dog gonna relieve itself on campus, talking to your disability office or your campus in some capacity on, you know, expectations of the guide dog and other people around, you [00:27:00] know, advocating for yourself, setting boundaries like Zach mentioned too. Um, so I think that's incredible. To our listeners who may be considering getting a guide dog.
These are all very, very important things to consider before kind of taking that leap and just to do a little plug here. Uh, there is a wonderful video that kind of talks through all of these different [00:27:20] things on our virtual learning resources page, which can be found@leaderdog.org under the resources tab.
And it's called guide dog readiness. And I would have. Suggest anybody check that out. Who's thinking about a guide dog or exploring that an option for a family member. It really does go through all of these things that Kayla and Zach have mentioned throughout this episode and all of the [00:27:40] work that they've put into.
And
Christina: just from what I've been able to see on campus and whatnot is that a lot of people like Kayla will come for summer experience camp or get other experiences, or just come for orientation and mobility. And while you're there, you can ask those questions or you can. Try out walking with [00:28:00] the dog. We're seeing if it's right for you, because it might not be.
So it is really important to come for O and M which a Leslie would love it because she is an orientation and mobility instructor, white cane, um, training for that. Um, so yeah, it is important to, you know, not just jumping into a guide dog to kind of look [00:28:20] at those options as well. You
Zach: both
Timothy: got your guide dogs.
What are the biggest challenges you still have with your black.
Kayla: I say personally, the biggest challenge is my vision fluctuates personally on the day to day, whether it's cloudy out, whether it's sunny out, whether it's pitch black out because something's wrong. [00:28:40] Middle of winter and it gets pitch black out at three o'clock in the afternoon.
So to me, it's just knowing that my dog can adapt to me and know like, oh, okay. Now not a good time to sniff this bushes where we're trying to do something here. Cause in the daytime, like we're just standing around Kane would probably smell the [00:29:00] ground or smell something. The dog, but like, if it's nighttime and he knows like, oh, she cannot see anything he's like focused.
He's like, let's just get from point a to point B and be done. So just knowing that they understand you and can read your emotions. Um, I think one thing that, uh, Alyssa said all the [00:29:20] time was whatever you're feeling goes right down the leash and the dog feels that too. So them just being able to pick up on what you're feeling and what kind of situation you're in.
Has been a lifesaver for me. Um, it was kinda have helped me get over some of those challenges that I've had.
Zach: I think for me, the biggest [00:29:40] currently difficulty to be visually impaired is I've come so dependent on wings. There's going to be situations where sometimes it's not appropriate to bring. You know, your guy dog somewhere, or, you know, uh, for example, I did a service break trip and we were in the middle of like the duties, nowhere Tennessee with this group called [00:30:00] mountain top, which is, you know, to see outreach program.
And it was an uncle paid experience and everything like that. But every day we were going to these really rural areas, using power tools, which isn't safe for a dog. Cause we had, you know, nails going saws, hammers and everything like that. I think sometimes going back and trying to. It's kind of like a Scouts we used to [00:30:20] say with not skill user loses, going back, the relying on that caner, just my scanning alone.
I think sometimes when I get in those situations, um, that's the most difficult is trying to remember like, oh man, what was life? Like, how did I do this before rakes? Um, so I I'd say that's a, for me
Leslie: that is so interesting. And [00:30:40] I just, one last question for both of you, I am curious, um, Is there anything that you would hell somebody who's younger, who's maybe 14 and just finding out that they have RP, um, any words of wisdom that you would pass on and Kayla we'll start with.
Kayla: My biggest thing is don't be as Zack, [00:31:00] they'll be so separated that you can't
really just accept or like start, even though you might not be asking, we'll start researching what's out there or start looking into what's out there and what possibilities there might be, because you never know. I would have [00:31:20] never known about guide dogs or leader dogs for that matter. If I didn't start researching and looking at things and if you know, college, the way you want to go, and you're not sure about a guy job talk to the DDMI is chopped talk to Dom.
It's like, I think I talked with Maggie and Leslie for weeks before I even put in my application for a guide dog. Um, [00:31:40] just making sure that the right decision. So even though you might be unsure of what's going to come, or if it is the right decision, There's many resources, whether it's that leader on or personally, to just figure out what might be best for you.
So don't be afraid to look for those that are opportunities or new opportunities, even though they might eat absolutely [00:32:00] terrifying.
Zach: So I'll echo Kayla. Don't be trying to be open-minded it's easier said than done. Like here I am sitting in the media. That's what I'm getting at and don't be exact, but. And take your time too, with this process.
Like it's how you come to terms with it and how you, [00:32:20] you know, how you come to grips with it. It's up to you. And then it's okay. It's not like you could be quickly like Katelyn jumped full in or you could be skeptical like me just take the time and don't shut down completely. Don't let you know, you just find out you have RP or anything.
Like I still go on 10 mile hikes with wings and I [00:32:40] do all these things. Like, just because you're visually impaired, people are always going to tell you. No, you can't just do that or like, oh, are you sure you can do this? And if you want you, you can like, and I think that would be my advice for anybody coming in, be persistent.
And you're going to have to stand up for yourself because other people in the world are gonna tell you, you can't do this. And it [00:33:00] just, I just want to throw a little plug in there cause like, Uh, advocate for this. So if you're starting to leave it on process, I say, go open-minded as much as possible. You can be as specific as you want when applying to be a dog.
And I think one of the coolest things about Kayla and I, and I forgot to bring this up earlier is wings is a prison puppy. He was raised in a prison [00:33:20] and you know, that deters people, I knew there was lots of people that were just nervous about having her dog that was raising prices and wages, the friendliest.
So that's just my little plum from prison pumps. Like don't I know some people when they are applying, they're like, no, I'm uncomfortable with having a dog. There was reason to prison and don't be, cause it was a great program. And take a look at it, share your stuff on the website [00:33:40] about it too.
Leslie: Absolutely.
Thank you so much. And I think that was perfect, Zach, to both of you made great points, but everybody comes to leader, die, get and goes through their blindness. It's a very unique experience. So, and you guys are a perfect example of being in the same household, kind of going through the same things, but yet taking different paths and coming to leader dog at different [00:34:00] times and kind of accepting your blindness.
And we know that it's a journey and this is still the beginning phase of it. You know, vision like Kayla mentioned, it fluctuates, it's tricky. It changes day by day and every day is a new, a new adventure. So thank you so much to both of you for joining us. And thank you, uh, to the listeners for listening to the, taking the lead pilot.[00:34:20]
I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Cuneo and Christina. Hapner. We really hope you enjoy learning about these two amazing individuals, Zach and Kayla, please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you like, today's a podcast that makes sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast stream.
And we now have an email address. [00:34:40] So if you have any questions or ideas, you can send them to taking the lead at leaderdog.org.