Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hoeppner with my co-host, Leslie Hoskins in Timothy Kyo. We just had the pleasure of having Timothy here in Michigan on
Leslie: campus. That's always so
Christina: exciting
Leslie: and in studio. We love when that happens. Yes,
Timothy: of course.
How do I, so, yeah. Yeah. It was also, we're celebrating my five year anniversary with Glacier.
Leslie: Oh my goodness. That went really, really fast.
Timothy: Yes it has. I mean, just imagine where I was six, seven years ago and now where I'm at now has just been totally life changing and uh, I got a great dog and a great organization that's backing me up.
Leslie: Oh my. Do you feel five years wiser?
Timothy: Uh, my wife would say, no,
Leslie: I do love Cheryl's opinion,
Timothy: but having a guide dog, all the stuff that, all the knowledge and all the things that we've been through, I can help somebody else, you know, with their guide dog or o and m, whatever. I mean, yeah, maybe that point. [00:01:00] Yes. I mean, I've gone through a lot, a lot of traveling, so, uh, maybe, yeah, maybe a little bit on that end.
Yeah,
Leslie: well, for sure. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And you've shared so many tips and tricks on this podcast here, and when you're going out and traveling and doing presentations, I. I would absolutely say, and you know, I don't like to disagree with Cheryl, but I would say you're definitely five years wiser.
Timothy: I'll tell, I'll tell her that.
Oh, don't tell her. Um,
Christina: that made me think about, we started this process of like getting the podcast together and meeting each other like three years ago now. I
Leslie: know. Yeah. 'cause Christina just celebrated what your three year at Leader Dog? My three year at
Christina: Leader Dog. So, and
Leslie: I was 10 years this year. You guys we're accomplishing
Christina: a lot.
Yeah. Oh, way to go.
Timothy: Time is flying by. I can't
Christina: believe when we started that You had only had glacier for two years. Yeah.
Timothy: Yeah. I mean, just came outta the covid thing and then, uh, I mean, it's just, it, it is flying by. It's going, it's going fast.
Leslie: I can relate. My daughter also just turned five, and I can believe that five [00:02:00] years have passed because Timothy, when you and I met, I was pregnant with Alice and we were wandering the streets of Rochester.
Timothy: Yes, we were. It was pretty interesting, Leslie. It was when I first met you.
Leslie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to give Timothy a hard time 'cause he made me walk a couple extra blocks as I was eight months pregnant
Timothy: and you were not that innocent, so I'm sure you forget what happened to the mall and all that other stuff.
Pay back. You got me back?
Leslie: Yeah. He was like, oops, I forgot to turn. Let's go uphill. A couple more blocks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you were doing, but yeah, five years. Well, congratulations, Timothy. You've definitely done a lot of work. Yeah.
Timothy: Well, thank you. Absolutely, and I couldn't have done it without you guys, so hey, you guys are, Hey, I did nothing.
Leslie: Don't give her any credit.
Timothy: Okay. Well, yeah, you just fell. You just fell off the tree and we found you basically pretty much how it happened. You parachuted in parachute. You guys have
Christina: [00:03:00] taught me a lot, so there you am. Yeah.
Timothy: Well, we're gonna do a test later on, so we're gonna see what we think. Yeah, I'm not
Christina: good at test taking.
Leslie: All right. Well, very exciting stuff and congrats, uh, Timothy. That is a big anniversary. So we're excited though. Today's guest is a leader dog ambassador, who's established a student organization of puppy raisers at the college campus. He works
Christina: at. Graham Harper is the dean of the Honors College at Oakland University in Michigan, and until 2011, he was a visiting researcher at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston.
And prior to that he was based in the United Kingdom where he led a number of university schools. He's a fiction writer in his published books on the Future of Education.
Timothy: Dr. Harper, welcome to the podcast. Let's start at the beginning. What brought you to Oakland University way back when?
Dr Harper: Well, good morning.
It's great to be with you. Uh, yeah, it's fantastic. I, I was down in, uh, Texas and it was on a short, short term [00:04:00] appointment. I was actually, as I say, based in, uh, you know, Wales and, uh. And in many ways it was unexpected. I just commented on how wonderful e everything looked at Oakland, and next thing you know, I was being interviewed and, uh, off we went.
So we left, uh, we left Britain in, uh, July of 2011 and was basically, I was starting here in, in August, so, uh, fabulous school. Um, unexpected and just absolutely thrilled to arrived here and now it's coming up for, well, 13 years. Wow.
Leslie: That is a crazy story. I do know what to say, but wow. Talk about a leap of faith.
Timothy: Yeah.
Leslie: So 13 years. Tell us how that went. I mean, not only is that starting at a new university, but also just a huge move and culture shock.
Dr Harper: Well, we'd spent a lot of time backwards and forwards in the United States, but, you know, perhaps people can tell from the accent. I was born in Australia and then, uh, then we were in Britain for n nearly 20 years.
And, uh, so we knew, knew the United States [00:05:00] reasonably well from about the mid 1990s. But the concept and the idea of moving here was, uh, you know, just a dream really. It wasn't anything we thought we'd ever do. And then this, as I say, it was a weird set of circumstances. And next thing you know, I was interviewing for the job and Oakland, you know, in many ways is an institution that has all these hidden jams.
And uh, you know, I think in that sense it, it was sort of fortuitous, but also maybe, maybe we were on the same, you know, kind of wavelength from the start, you know, and, and ultimately arrived and realized again, the honors college here is, is a long and prestigious history. The whole thing was kind of bizarre, but at the same time it was, uh, you know, almost as if it was faded to happen.
It
Leslie: naturally felt like a right fit right away.
Timothy: Right.
Leslie: That's wonderful.
Timothy: So you came to Leader Dog in 2019. What attracted you to Leader Dog?
Dr Harper: Yeah, it was a combination, actually. Funny enough, I mean, I'd driven past quite a bit and I was kind of intrigued and I really should have dropped in. You know, it's that whole thing about you're not sure.
Always, you know, who's, who's invited, who's not [00:06:00] invited to places. But I was always intrigued, uh, and, uh, the form of mayor of Rochester, Michigan, uh, Jeff Cups. And, uh, Jeff said to me once, yeah, you should really meet the folks there. And I, and I said, yeah, you, I'd really like to one day. Anyway, I, I decided to set, uh, a book for the, um, freshman Colloquium cult class, and it's a, think around about 500 students that join the Honors College at Oakland every year.
So it's a. Pretty big group of students. And the book that I chose is a wonderful poetic book called Have Dog Will Travel. Mm-Hmm. Uh, by Steve Gato. And it's a, it's a fabulous story, but it's also incredibly well written. Uh, Steve's a poet. Uh, he was at Syracuse University for many, many years. Uh, and it tells his own story, uh, about getting a dog guide dog a little later in life than perhaps, uh, was, would've been planned normally.
And, and, and the fact that he'd actually just. Gone everywhere after that and, and really got the chance to be, uh, mobile and, and, and empowered and so on. And I thought it was a terrific story. Well, the students loved it. Uh, [00:07:00] absolutely loved it from the start. I loved it, of course. Um, so we headed on over and were invited very warmly to come and get to know, uh, what Leader Dog did and indeed what it.
What it does and, uh, the sorts of things that, uh, uh, were happening in, in puppy raising and so on and so on. Just the whole package of things. So we brought, um, about 35 students over and they came over two or three times before we set off into the book. And then we had over 500 students, as I say, reading that book, uh, through the fall semester of 2019.
Uh, I went to our vice president of, uh, student affairs at that point. As well and said, Hey, this is very cool. I think we'd like to build, build a better relationship here. So that's where it all started, but it is much more to the story, but that, that essentially is the starting point and I think it started with that incredible positiveness, um, that's continued ever since.
So we are thrilled to be, to be working with Leader Doc.
Christina: Yeah, that is amazing that it started with. A book essentially, and turned into this great relationship. [00:08:00] Now, if you could tell us, you have a future leader dog student organization that you established on the university campus. Can you tell us how that got started and how it's going?
Dr Harper: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's. Very much a student organization. And I say that almost too, obviously ob, but I think the, the point is I love to see it that it's a student driven thing. I, I mean, I'm notionally the faculty advisor and you know, the honors college supports it and so on. But I really like to emphasize it's the students that have driven it and the students that, that make it happen.
But it did need a little bit of discussion to start off with, you know, it did, it did need some sort of connection making, as I say. Uh. Vice President of Student Affairs, Glen Macintosh, and I got together and I said, you know, really would love to do this. Glen uh, student organizations at Oakland are based in student affairs.
So even though, uh, we're over in academic affairs, of course with our academic programs, I needed to make sure we could set up a, a student organization. So we did that and, um, from day one, students jumped in. I mean, they really [00:09:00] wanted to get involved. They wanted to lead, lead the organization. Some of them were coming out of that, uh, freshman class, not fresh.
Fresh them themselves, but actually, uh, some of the leaders, the freshman group leaders, so we had teaching assistants that said, Hey, I, I, I'd like to actually do this. Um, so, you know, the, the book generated the, the initial idea, but I think it was fundamentally the, the connections student made. Students made straight away.
I mean, it just, it didn't surprise me in some ways, but in other, other ways it was just totally remarkable. They kind of got it. Um, and, and the way they got it was absolute, absolutely driven by this idea that what, how can we help, what can we get involved in and, and what's involved? And, and from there on in, it's been the, the most vibrant student organization I've ever seen.
Uh, so incredible. Really.
Christina: Yeah, it's so amazing that we have campus puppy raisers, so we have certain campuses that are involved and Oakland is one of our biggest ones. And you guys are so involved. And the amount of exposure that our puppies get in that first [00:10:00] year of life is amazing 'cause they're on a college campus.
They're seeing so many different things and so many different places. I'm currently puppy raising with. My marketing team and it is a lot of work, so it's a lot of dedication, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of commitment and um, to see this dog that you'll have for a year and sharing it, you know, on the campus as well.
Um, it is great that this has turned out. To be a thing that has continued now to this day. Um, and I know you had mentioned, um, previously that this, so the students run it, but there's also people that help out with it. If you could explain a little bit more about that, like who helps out with it? How many people are raising the puppies at once?
How does that all work?
Dr Harper: Yeah, so it, it is intriguing in terms of the network of people that, that assist. I, I would say, you know, in many ways the students have developed this professional approach that has been so well received by faculty and staff too. So they, uh, they alert people to the fact that they're raising a [00:11:00] puppy.
They have a formal way of doing that. It's, it's. Friendly, but formal. They make sure that they, uh, you know, have approvals to bring, uh, their puppies into, into laboratories and, you know, classrooms and so on. So they do all that. But then at the same time, obviously we've got people within the honors college, myself, uh, and our executive secretary as well, um, that just kind of help out to keep things going.
Within the Honors College. So we've obviously got a sort of home base, uh, that the students can come back to on campus and, and get support as well. Uh, you know, obviously the puppy racing folks from Leader Dog have been incredibly supportive of, of everything as well. So there's a real sense of a network of support.
Um, the raisers themselves, of course, have campus buddies that help out, and there's a whole bunch of, uh, campus buddies who basically agreed to, to, uh, puppy sit as it were. Uh, if there is any situation where the, uh, the puppy can't visit a. A lab or a, or a classroom, which occasionally happens. So there's a range of those folks who've been involved as well.
Um, it's a real POS positive network as I say, and I think one of the [00:12:00] things that then happens is that folks show their interest as much as they can. So there's folks that are absolutely gonna get involved in raising the, are folks that just want to connect and say, Hey, I support you. Uh, what can I do to help?
And then it's basically having the home base and the honors college has really helped. So we're not an organization, and I say we, we, um, even though, as I say, it's students that drive it, um, the organization is not, uh, just for honors college students, it's for the entire campus. But we make sure that the honors college is there in support.
Um, and I think that that's been the, the easiest way to, to set it up for everybody so that we take responsibility at that point. Um, but yeah, lots of people, lots of, lots of excited people saying, Hey, how, what? Can we do more? You know?
Leslie: It's so interesting. You never know sometimes where these relationships, when they start, where they're gonna go and how they're gonna develop.
And you know, it started with a book and a tour and it's built into something so elaborate really. And so many people have been involved. And the great thing is, is these students then go on and a lot of them continue to raise outside of the campus life, right? And. It's really a lifelong, you [00:13:00] know, commitment and impact and they're telling their friends.
And so you just never know when one small little conversation or incident is going to lead to, um, which is something that we think about all the time when we're doing presentations at schools and things like that. There's just sometimes an immediate buy-in that has such, uh, a return on investment really.
But yeah. I'm curious, in the years since you've been doing this, how many dogs do you know how many future leader dogs you guys have raised on your campus?
Dr Harper: Well, it's, it's 15, which is not too bad. Uh, and again, the number will rise. There's been 160 people involved, uh, in doing that. You know, and I think that's the other thing.
Um, knowing the, the histories, and again, you know, this, this evolution of some education and not just folks that have been interested. I think everybody around the Honors College in particular is now educated on how, uh, at least a little bit on how. The process works, which again, is fascinating, but I say 15, they've gone all over the place.
You know, there's been, uh, leader dogs, uh, that have been raised in the program. They've ended up in Spain. Uh, you know, it, it's just a fabulous story to [00:14:00] tell. But yes, it's, it's, it's just been terrific in terms of that, um, success. But I think, uh, it doesn't necessarily reflect the number of people that have been behind it.
So, as I say, 160 is a lot of people.
Christina: That is a lot of people. A lot of people who are being. Educated on how a service dog works as well, and they're able to spread the mission for wherever they go in their lives. So that is a lot.
Dr Harper: Yeah, it is. It, I, it surprised me. I, I thought we better check in just to make sure.
Uh, and of course, every year, we, and we'll do it again in, in September, we have, uh, the student president, the current president, Mackenzie Nichols is absolutely a dynamite. I wanna give a shout out to. Mackenzie, I mean, just a puppy raise herself obviously. But you know, just such great support, uh, for other other students.
And, uh, we get the organization on from Mackenzie and a few others to come along to our Freshman Colloquium class, which is called Making Discoveries. And that's where the book was read, you know. Five years ago now. Uh, so they come along and they [00:15:00] describe it, and it's amazing. You see 500 students in that, that class.
And, and, uh, they get asked, you know, who who'd like to get involved and, you know, it, it, it's like most of the hands go up. So, you know, lots of people show the interest to start off with. You know, obviously we know there's logistics and the reality of the thing that not everybody will be able to be involved, but the, the, the passion initially and the.
The way people respond and, and those freshmen students who literally are just starting college themselves. So, you know, in many ways they've got other things on their, on their mind, but they're straight in there. They're straight up for it.
Timothy: So when you get a dog, is it like, like one student for one dog, or is there many students for one dog?
Dr Harper: You know, it's, it's a good question, Tim. 'cause I think in some ways it's many people for one dog. 'cause we're all interested. Um, you know, so the dog comes in and we celebrate, um, again, Mackenzie's current, uh, current. Puppy is, is Henry, and, uh, Henry comes in and the whole of the almond college flocks around Henry.
Um, but, but it is indeed one student, one dog with lots of other folks. But I mean, the puppy [00:16:00] raisers connect themselves to people as well so that they're available for, uh, the Racer at the time. Uh, but you know, I, I think, uh, at the, at points throughout the, uh, the air, you know, people are aware of, uh. Which puppies are being raised and who's coming in and, uh, who's, who's about to go back.
And everybody's kind of got fingers crossed, uh, for the success of, uh, of, of the puppy and, and, and so on. It's just, uh, as I say, we, we, we, we have a kind of community more than, more than just one person out in their own. And I think that's what's made it successful, really. It's that sense that, yes, okay, you're, you are indeed taking the responsibility as the puppy raiser, but you are, you, you're not alone.
Timothy: Do you know what
Dr Harper: your
Timothy: success rate is with these dogs?
Dr Harper: Interestingly, 10 folks have raised 15 puppies, and I'm thinking how many have been successful in terms of, have gone on? And I can't think of the ex exact figure to be honest. Um, at first we weren't, I, I say we weren't doing well. I think the students were doing brilliantly, but we know what it's like at the, at those final hurdle stages and, you know, some didn't get through, [00:17:00] had such passion at the first, uh.
The first president of the student, uh, organization of the Future Leader Dog organization, she was determined that her puppy would make it Andy, and he didn't. He now lives happily at home with her, of course, as many tend do. Um, but he didn't make it. And, and then it took a couple more before, before we had a first success in that, in that respect, uh, as I say, as executive secretary in the honor college got involved as well with her daughter.
Um, you know, and it, it's been a pretty good success rate, but I, I can't pluck that figure out in my head at the moment.
Leslie: Really Ray, ultimately it's great success no matter how many dogs actually go on to be leader dogs, even those that are career change sometimes might find alternate careers. And again, it's just spreading that mission.
So the more dogs you're raising, the more people that are getting involved in the mission. And so it's, it's just all around an absolute win. But I know you guys have had several that have been very successful and are outworking with, um, clients and, and changing lives. But not only have you really been a part [00:18:00] of the, the Future Leader dogs and the puppy raising program, but the School of Engineering has designed surgical tables.
Mm-hmm. For our vet clinic and tactile maps. And so there has been such a partnership and collaboration between us. Can you tell us a little bit more about some of those outside puppy raising?
Dr Harper: Yeah, that's really interesting too. And the funny thing is, until we came over, back in 2019, uh, to, to sort of introduce the students for the first time and start to, to get a sense of it, you, I, I didn't know, the students certainly didn't know that engineering had, had also also been involved.
So, you know, in some ways this is one of the. The, the great things about this partnership, you start to think, see that people have formed relationships along the way on different levels. So, you know, engineering obviously has been involved in some of those things that include, uh, you know, braille, braille related things and, and veterinarian related, uh, equipment and so on.
And discovering that I was able to talk to, to the dean of engineering about how this partnership went well beyond the Honors College. And I think that's exactly it. It's a sort of sense in which people have [00:19:00] shown an interest and I. By having the student organization, it's now allowed us to actually maybe connect a little bit more across the board and sort of folks that do want to get involved.
I know the student organization and certainly a number of the students from the Honors College who've done some volunteer work with outreach events, uh, with Leader Dog. Uh, I was thrilled to go along to Bark and Brew this year and, and bump into. Previous graduates of Oakland who were long time, uh, puppy raisers.
And again, you see that the Oakland community has professors and former professors who have been involved. Uh, but it wasn't necessarily, you know, on the radar if you like. And, and I think that's the thing with the student org, it's allowed us to actually start to show. That the interest has been there for many years.
It's just not been centralized or, or promoted, if you like. And, and I think now it's, it's, it's really doing that. So yeah, it's, it's a great relationship. I mean, I've said to people before, it's very unusual to have, what I keep saying is a fabulous opportunity, uh, to have Leader Dogs for the Blind in Rochester and obviously, um, a university here to, to work.
So, I mean, you know.
Leslie: [00:20:00] Oh, absolutely. And we, you know, use your campus so often for training with clients, for both Guide Dog o and m, our teen summer camp. We use it almost every summer. We've done actual tours there. Yeah. And gone behind the scenes and kind of seen the dorm rooms and, and all sorts of stuff.
But we use, um, accessible GPSA lot and we always kind of need this open area and your campus is absolutely perfect for that and especially for our teens during that camp because they are going doing college campus tours. Mm-Hmm. And so it's a great place for us to kind of mock that and, and give them a real life example of how they can go to whatever college and maybe it is Oakland University.
Um. To, to practice these different skills. And so it's just been phenomenal, uh, the, the relationship and we always feel so welcome there and so supportive and everybody is so kind and generous and it's just, it's fantastic. So I love hearing about all the things that have happened since, uh, your start and, and kind of bringing our organizations together.
And then of course all the stuff with the engineering too. And we recently learned, [00:21:00] Christina and I were having a fantastic conversation with Melissa Wise, our new CEO and president. Who you two uh, have connected throughout the years quite frequently. But she informed us that 15% of our leader dog team members are OU alumni, which I found fascinating.
Dr Harper: I mean, it's amazing, isn't it? Again, it sort of makes sense, but you don't immediately think of it. A few of few of those folks, of course, honors college graduates as well, so that's kind of cool for me. So yeah, indeed.
Christina: And do you have any advice for any universities who might be hearing this podcast right now and they're like, Hey, I wanna start this on my campus?
Any advice for them to get the a puppy raising pro, puppy raising program started? I.
Dr Harper: The difficulty is it gets, it gets a little emotional because I think for me, what I've seen, um, goes beyond, goes beyond programs and academics and even, even your average student organization in terms of its reason for existing.
What you see happen is a shift in the way [00:22:00] students understand empathy and you see commitment and responsibility. And the kind of things that you hope. You'd see students gain through a college education you see happening and you see it happening because of the partnership with Leader Dog. Now to my mind, that's why it's worth doing even before you realize what impact it's gonna have on somebody well beyond those students who, who will benefit from having Leader Dog.
So. I would say yes, every, every campus, every institution is gonna ask itself, you know what, what is the risk of doing this? What's the impact on our environment of doing this? You know, what do we have to invest to do this? Can we afford to do this? All those questions, and that's right to ask them. But I would say take the risk.
If you think there's a risk, take it because the benefits go well beyond what you can imagine.
Leslie: That is so kind and so nice and so true. [00:23:00] Right? We talk about the leader dog family all the time and just the connections and what you're saying, right? Just inspiring students, uh, to be a part of something bigger and work collaboratively.
And another great thing that has come out of this relationship is also advocating for people on your campus who are blind or visually impaired, right? Yeah. Yeah. Recognizing that there, you know, accessibility needs and what can we do to make the campus more accessible or more, uh. Proactive about service dogs on campus.
And so I know you guys have done a lot of work in that area too, because bringing awareness is half the battle.
Dr Harper: Oh, for sure. And I think it's, again, it's, it spreads beyond, uh, we've got a lot more interest, I think, in people realizing what accessibility, uh, can or should mean. Uh, I think there's a lot more interest in thinking about what a.
Positive community partnership can mean, you know, it really does sort of build, build building blocks to, to create something magnificent. So, you know, people look at it a again, you mentioned Melissa before. I think it's wonderful. Melissa always talks about leader dog a as a person, [00:24:00] a, a centered organization.
Even though we often focus on the dogs, uh, obviously that's the thing that comes across too. And you really get a sense of people helping people and, and. I think it's what campuses, campuses like to say that they, they, they believe in, you know, but this, this is, uh, this is what it does. And, and it's a miraculous thing to, to be involved in.
It's fabulous to see that the students are driving it. And I think that's the other thing to remember, that this is something where relatively young people, most of them are, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, uh, are taking charge of something that they know is gonna be the benefit for other of other people, which, you know, is just miraculous.
Leslie: That's wonderful. Well, we wanna thank you for all of the incredible work that you have done in fostering this relationship and building the, the puppy raising program, and just, again, all of those other, so many things to talk about in collaboration. And of course, thank you for joining us today and we know that you are very, very busy.
Uh, so we certainly appreciate your time. An
Dr Harper: absolute pleasure. Great to be with you. We'll see you soon.
Leslie: Yes, and thank you [00:25:00] so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hepner. I. We hope you enjoyed learning about Dr. Harper and his work at Oakland University.
Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog or volunteering to be a puppy raiser or learning more about our campus programs, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast stream.