Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hoeppner with my co-host Timothy Kuo and guest host Alyssa oti. Now, if you guys remember, Alyssa joined the marketing team, so she joined the dark side. She was Oh, yep, yep. a guy, dog mobility instructor now joined us.
So she's gonna be, you know, filling in when Leslie can't be here or I can't be here.
Alyssa: Um, so I'm super excited. I love this podcast. Been listening since it started, and. Never thought I'd be guest host . So I feel honored.
Christina: Yes. Well in your knowledge that you bring is so different. Sure. So yeah, it's great to have that as well.
That's
Timothy: nice to have you here with us. And cuz I mean, we all have busy lives sometimes and things pop up and so it's nice
Alyssa: to have some backup. That's it. Anytime anybody needs me, I'm here. Yes.
Christina: And I know we were just chatting. The weather, um, cuz Timothy said it's raining in 60 and I'm, we're over [00:01:00] here in Michigan, like, how sad.
It's 20 in snowing. Yeah.
Alyssa: Yeah. I'll take rain in 60. Yeah, that sounds like summer to me, honestly. Right. .
Christina: So we're about to come down to Georgia. Yeah, .
Timothy: Well, you guys can come on down anytime you can. I've got a trailer you all can live. Inco. .
Alyssa: I love it. Live in Tiffany's trailer, . Hey man, I'm all about that life.
Absolutely.
Christina: Yeah, that's, oh my goodness, that's so funny. I probably would last
Alyssa: a day. Oh no. I could do it forever. Yeah. Oh, Oh yeah, I, a camp. Got tv,
Christina: air conditioning,
Alyssa: bathroom. There we go. I, that works. Got TV's. Actually, three TVs, actually. More TVs than my house. Gotcha. So there you go. Beautiful. So, I mean, it's
Christina: set.
Okay. So it's a big trailer. .
Timothy: I got microwave in it. You can pop some
Alyssa: popcorn if it's got a microwave. That's all I need.
Christina: Yeah. Oh, there we go. I like, uh, lit went. on vacation in northern Michigan in a tiny home, and that was really fun. Oh, I
Alyssa: love tiny houses. Yeah.
Christina: I could have lived [00:02:00] there for a while.
Alyssa: Yeah. I think that you accumulate more stuff than you think you will.
Yeah. And then you probably fill it up pretty quick. Oh yeah. I could do, I never thought I'd tell my house.
Christina: Right. Well, I, because I was in TV for so long and I was moving every one to two years, I really don't have a lot of stuff. Yeah. So I'm in, that's what I thought. I'm in this. , um, ever, like I am, I'm always cleaning out every season I clean out.
Oh. And so it's just like a, sounds great because I had to, I was like, either I'm always moving way too many things or I get in the habit of constantly cleaning
Alyssa: out. Yeah. I used to do that. And then once I bought a house, I just said, oh, I have a basement. I can fill it with stuff. Who doesn't need two washing machines in their basement,
Christina: just ready to go.
I know. That's what I'm nervous about. Cause I. You know, starting to look at house hunting and doing that sort of stuff. So I'm like, do not let yourself accumulate more than you need.
Alyssa: That's what you say. And then you have a table, and then another better table comes along, . [00:03:00] So your first one goes in the basement.
On that note, does anybody need a table right after you're selling a table? Selling a table? There we go. Or have a Have a big
Timothy: garage sale. Yeah. Yeah. Collective crap, .
Alyssa: That's exactly it. Yeah. I do love a good garage sale.
Christina: See, I can't stand like having too many things or like, yeah. Clutter and that sort of stuff.
So for me, like. That's why
Alyssa: it goes in the basement. Well see.
Christina: I'm always like, well, I could give this away and it could go to someone who needs it.
Alyssa: So that's it. When my husband moved in, he has much nicer kitchen stuff than I do, and uh, I just put all of my stuff in one box and said, somebody come and get it.
It's on the porch. Yeah. Just out of my house, right?
Christina: Mm-hmm. . Well, let's get into, um, you know, today's episode, we're doing a little bit of a shorter episode with Alyssa here. Um, cuz we're gonna take some time to talk about a much requested topic and Alyssa has a lot of knowledge on this one, ADA rights and advocacy.
So we get a lot of questions about rights. [00:04:00] That guide dogs have and what they don't have. So what a better day to talk about this when we both have Alyssa and Timothy, because Alyssa can share her knowledge and Timothy can share his experience and I can just ask the questions because I can't tell you anything.
gonna be completely honest on that. But you know something I didn't know to be completely honest before I started at Leave Your Dog, I didn't really know. Difference was between like a service dog, a guide dog, an emotional support animal. So I think we should maybe start there. Sure. Um, seeing, you know, what is that difference?
Because we hear about it all the time. You hear about it in the news and that sort of stuff. Mm-hmm. , you know, emotional support animals Yes. To service dogs. Like what is the difference
Alyssa: there? Yeah. There, it's a, a difference that not a lot of people know. So a service dog is a dog that's been trained to do something for its handler to do a task, a guide.
Falls under a service dog category. It's kind of a subset. Um, because what you'll hear often is people will say, well, [00:05:00] service dogs, wear vests, guide dogs, wear harnesses. Still both service dogs, okay? They both are covered under the ada. Uh, but when it comes to therapy, dogs and emotional support dogs, they have a little bit different access rights in that they're.
Trained to do a task for their handler. They may be the emotional support, they may be able to calm people down, but that doesn't give them access into public places. Okay? Now, a therapy dog is a dog that is used amongst a group of people. So a dog can be invited into a hospital or into a senior center.
Those types of dogs, therapy dogs can go and do that, but they can't necessarily go. Your grocery store, your your ikea. Okay. So because they're not
Christina: a big difference there, they're not working to serve you in those areas. Correct. Okay.
Alyssa: You wouldn't necessarily need them to perform a task for you in those areas, nor could they.
Christina: I think you explained it very well. Yeah. Um, in that [00:06:00] aspect, because, you know, a lot of people think, oh, like I've heard about, you know, therapy, dog, emotional support. Can they come with me wherever they go and, right. They can't.
Alyssa: They can't. And it also depends on living situations. There's certain places that say pets aren't allowed, and if a pet's not allowed a service dog is still allowed.
Emotional support. Would also be allowed in most uh, situations. So that's also something for people to look into and be aware of is that even though a place may say no pets, there still may be some other animals categorized slightly differently There.
Christina: So do service dogs have papers then? That's
Alyssa: a great question.
Um, service dogs don't necessarily have papers. Okay. There's no registry that they need to be a part of. Leader Dog does give out an identification card that has the ADA laws on the back of it, and then on the front has a photo of the working team, so the handler and their dog, as well as their name, saying that they went through training.
However, they don't technically have to have. In order to get access rights. Yeah. It's just [00:07:00] something extra that we say here. Sometimes this stops people's questions, but I'm sure Timothy can, can chime in that he's had some experience at some point with somebody telling you, uh, one way or another with your dog.
Timothy: I've had experiences mainly in restaurants. Sure, of course. And uh, when you go in, they ask, is that a service animal? And I say, yes. And that's about as far as it goes. Now I've good. Somebody hasn't asked before what tasks I do, and I say I'm legally blind. Mm-hmm. and that's it. They cannot ask anymore questions than that.
Normally now, yeah. You can have, I've never ran into it, but I've heard horror stories. Sure. And it can happen. And that's when you need to know your rights of being a service dog or a guide. Uh, owner.
Christina: Yeah, cuz I guess you can't assume that everybody knows those
Alyssa: rights and that's it. Not everybody knows the rights and not everybody knows the questions.
Like Timothy was saying, you can ask or be asked two questions when you go somewhere. Is that a service animal? And what tasks has it been taught to do for you? Or what tasks do you have it do [00:08:00] for you? So in Timothy's case, he said, yes, and I'm legally blind. It's my guide. At that point, they can't ask you anything else.
Okay.
Christina: So like if they start to ask you more, you can say that's it is a
Alyssa: service dog and this is the job that it provides for. .
Christina: That is interesting to know. I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't know that. People could only ask two questions. Now we have a lot of, you know, puppy razors who have those dogs in training, so obviously they're not service dogs yet.
What, well, are they covered under the ada
Alyssa: or is that so in every state? Um, it differs. Yeah, it differs. However, with puppy razors, at least here in Michigan. Most of the time they go in, there's not much of an issue. If a store or somebody says something to them, they explain the situation. We also give out little cards, uh, that they can give to people that kind of say, What they're doing there.
But legally, no. If somebody wants to ask them to leave, they can. Okay. Um, however, now in Michigan for [00:09:00] instructors, for example, we didn't have rights for a while and just recently we got the rights. So instructors with dogs in formal training are legally allowed into places now. Okay. So that goes on a stay by stay basis
Christina: though.
Yeah. Yeah. So you really have to know the laws where you live Yeah. Or where you're traveling to. So taking that extra step to look into that if you are, you know, a puppy razor or a guide dog, mobility instructor as as
Alyssa: well. Yeah. And a lot of the times too, it's, it's just explaining, you know, a lot of the times people don't understand what you're doing there with a dog, but if your dog is there and under control and you can.
You know, what you're doing as a, as an instructor anyways. Yeah. Most of the time there's not an
Christina: issue. Yeah. And you know, Timothy kind of touched on this a little bit. Um, you know, but you can bring a service animal into a restaurant and that sort of places, um, And around food cuz they know there's some places that are like no dogs allowed.
Yeah, because it's, but there is that, um, rule four service animal animals that they're allowed where their humans are allowed. Is that [00:10:00] correct?
Alyssa: Yeah, that's pretty much correct. Now they can't tell you specifically where to sit in a restaurant. You know, they can't say, oh, the patio is dog friendly. It doesn't really matter if the patio's dog friendly.
This is my service animal. Yeah. The whole restaurant is now dog friendly. Uh, but there are also certain places that you can technically take your dog legally, but that you might not want to. Yeah. And so those are other things to think it's just because I can, should I ? That is true. You know, uh, and I'm sure Timothy, you've got a few places that you've thought maybe not the best place,
Timothy: not a sporting event or a concert.
Loud noises, fireworks or anything like that? I would not take my
Alyssa: dog. Yeah. Sticky movie theater floors. Yeah. Cuz at the end of the day, it
Christina: is
Alyssa: still a dog. It is still a dog. So, although you can always think, should I? Yes.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, I can't imagine the stress the dog would. Go under in some situations or people, I'm sure a sporting event, if it's a really busy one.
Oh yeah. People stepping over the dog or trying to feed the [00:11:00] dog. I'm sure. I don't know Timothy, if you've ever experienced that. Um, you know, just going anywhere that's maybe a little, has a little more people than normal.
Timothy: Yeah, I mean, you want to, you wanna enjoy your time too, and you want the dog to enjoy.
So sometimes it'd be better to leave the dog at home. So if you wanna enjoy it and let your dog be relaxed, you don't just think about what the venue's going to be. And that's what I do. Always pre-plan. Yeah.
Christina: Well, and that's why it is so important to have those orientation and mobility, those white cane skills as well.
Cuz Timothy, you've talked about it before, that you sometimes just have your cane with. Yeah,
Timothy: well, like when we travel sometimes, like if I go on a cruise that, uh, glacier can't go on, I, I had to use my cane for that entire week. Or if I gotta go to a sporting event or, or a concert, I, that's what we do. And so it's, you just gotta keep your skills up as much as you can.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And Timothy, you've talked about, you know, you go on a lot of cruises, sometimes you can take her, sometimes you don't. But what about hotels? Um, are they, you [00:12:00] know, is there rooms that. Do you have to call, I guess, beforehand and say, I'm bringing my service animal. Do they give you a specific room?
Do they give you certain accommodations? I guess, how does that all
Timothy: work? Well, if I schedule a, uh, room, uh, I always tell them I have a service animal. It's gonna be with me. And I mean, it, it is a per it's personal what to do or what not to do. I like to let them know pre hand that I'm coming and, uh, I've never been moved into a room just specifically cuz I have a guide.
Yeah, exactly. I might ask for one that's closer to the elevator, so easy access when it's time to go outside to do their business and stuff like that. I might ask for stuff, but I've never been moved into a room because of the dog. .
Christina: Well, and that's something to think about too. It's, you know, Timothy, you just said, you ask and you tell.
So, you know, do, do you wanna take those extra steps to do mm-hmm. what Timothy does? Because, you know, obviously it's easier for you Timothy to be near the elevator you, cuz you have to. Take that dog out. You know, the dog doesn't use the bathroom like you do. [00:13:00] No. Nice. That'd be nice though. Yeah. She's trained but not that well.
Yeah, right.
Oh, but that is so interesting too. Um, and you know, I guess, what do you do because Timothy, you said you've been asked questions before, but what do you do if someone tries to turn you away? I guess that. Sticky situation cuz you want to a advocate for yourself and you wanna educate. Mm-hmm. . But if someone's trying to turn you away, I know, you know, it could become a problem.
So what is the best steps to take in that situation? First,
Timothy: be calm. Don't blow up like a balloon. Because like I always say, you can get. , uh, flies with sweet stuff instead of Yes. Yes. So cuz you're adv you gotta advocate for yourself. So don't act deranged or crazy and explain to 'em that there is a law, that federal law mm-hmm.
federal law supersedes state law. And you must remind them of the fact and, [00:14:00] and ask for a manager and you work your way up. But be calm. That's the first thing to do is be.
Alyssa: Absolutely. I think the more you can educate people, because I think a lot of the times it's that people don't know. You know, they see a dog trying to come into a restaurant and they're like, oh, gosh, can't have a dog around food or whatnot.
But if you do, just stop and explain, then not only are you helping yourself, but you might help the next person that comes in that has a service animal. .
Christina: Yeah. And I can't imagine, I mean, I'm sure it get, it can be so frustrating because if this is, you know, a constant thing in your life and you're like, I just don't understand why people don't know.
Yeah. Um, so to me, I think that's great advice is to just take that step and calm yourself down. Because I'm sure, I mean, I know if I had to constant. Advocate, it can be exhausting for anyone. Yeah.
Alyssa: And then of course, you know, use your, your judgment if that's a place that they take what you say and they say, oh, I'm really sorry, and they want you there.
Or if on the other [00:15:00] side of things they're still quite rude about it, perhaps you go elsewhere. I mean, the choice is definitely yours. But I would always say try and advocate for yourself for sure.
Christina: Yeah. And definitely, um, That is really good to know. I guess, what is Alyssa, any advice, um, that you could give to maybe someone who maybe works in one of those establishments, you know, if they come across a service dog?
Sure.
Alyssa: So there are, like I said, the two questions that you can get asked if you have a service dog. And also there are reasons that you can get asked to leave even if you have a legitimate service dog. So if somebody works at the establishment that you're at and they notice that your dog. Y being too vocal and barking and jumping up on chairs or smells really bad or has a bunch of stuff stuck in its fur, they can ask you to leave.
So part of what your job is as a handler is to make sure that your dog is under control and make sure that your dog is well behaved so that the people in the establishment don't have to ask you to leave. [00:16:00] Cuz most of the time they don't want to. They just need to understand, oh, it's a service dog. And as long as the dog's being well behaved to just kinda let it.
Yeah, dog's doing great. Everyone. Nobody's hurt in the situation. So as a, a person that works somewhere, just being open understanding, but also knowing. You do have rights too.
Christina: Yeah. And I know Timothy, when you came up here to visit, um, we went out to lunch and dinner and, um, I didn't even know that Glacier was there.
Yeah. You know? Yes. That's the way
Alyssa: it's supposed to be. Isn't that the best compliment Timothy, when you get up and Yes. It's, and somebody goes, I didn't know there was a dog.
Christina: Yeah, it
Timothy: happens all the
Alyssa: time. It's such a good
Christina: feeling. Well, and that really shows the work you put in because you can't just get a dog and then, Expect when you wanna go out
It just, it works. Yeah. It's always a practice thing. Um, and typically that just shows, I mean, I reremember like. I even forgot like, yes, I walked in with you and Uhhuh and I forgot she was there, , because she literally puts [00:17:00] herself, she's, you know, a lab, so she's a larger dog, but like she puts herself like she were a small dog in a corner, like yeah.
Oh yeah.
Timothy: I mean, you always gotta keep the dog groomed, like Alyssa said. Yeah. There might be somebody there that may not want your dog in or don't give him any reason to kick you out.
Alyssa: That's
Timothy: exactly. So, uh, just groom that dog every day like you're supposed to keep his teeth brushed and, and, and just don't give anybody an excuse.
Christina: Yes. Well, this is all great stuff. Is there anything else that either of you guys wanna share about this?
Timothy: Just realize that, uh, you can take your dog on planes and stuff like that, but with the new law that went in effect a couple years ago, it's a little bit more difficult. Mm-hmm. it, it happens. Uh, I've flown very a lot with Glacier last year and there are airlines that are a little bit different than another airline.
So make sure when you do make that reservation, you follow through everything. And, uh, get your paperwork and it's, it's sometimes it's tough. Oh yeah. And, uh, absolutely just know [00:18:00] which airline. Every airline has different rules and so just make sure you got all your Ps and Qs and your Ts crossed, abso.
Alyssa: That's honestly great advice. Airlines are all different and traveling in general, just make sure you've got all of your stuff in, in order.
Christina: Yeah, so pre-planning is a huge thing when traveling with a service animal.
Timothy: I'm traveling March, April and May and I'm already worried about it and already getting things lined up for glacier to travel cause we gotta do some stuff and, uh, you gotta pre-plan and don't do it the last
Christina: minute.
Yeah. I just off of that real quick. Um, as one last question Timothy, what is it like to have your service dog in an airport? Cause that is a bit, it can be sometimes a busier place. It's,
Timothy: it's an experience cuz you're stressed cuz you, there's some dogs use the potties stations in them. , some don't. Yeah.
Glacier did the last time I took her, which I was surprised mm-hmm. , but before she would never do it. And so there's always that, oh my gosh, is there, is there, are we gonna have an accident here? And so you just try [00:19:00] to get to the gate as quickly as possible. and calm the dog. , give her some treats and make, make it a happy event for her too.
Yeah. And and it is, it is a stressful for both of you and it's always nice to get to the end of the airport when you're done with everything. So, yeah. And planning the feeding and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. , I mean, it, it, I can write a book ,
Christina: right? You should. Yeah. So plan and really look up,
Alyssa: plan, look up, know your rights.
Advocate for yourself in all situations. And, uh, I mean, it, it's, we're talking about it as if it's a, a big issue all the time, but I'm sure Timothy will tell you it, it doesn't happen all the time that he's been turned away from places. And I do hear it from clients, but I don't hear it, you know, as a consistent, consistent issue.
No. So as long as you know your rights and like Timothy said, be nice about it.
Christina: Yeah. I mean, and these are great things to know for both sides, right? For people who have a service dog and people who are on that [00:20:00] receiving end of, you know, working in a restaurant mm-hmm. or working in a store or whatever it may be.
Absolutely. Well, thank you both for all of this knowledge. I learned a ton. So, um, I am excited to take this and teach other people Love it, right. . Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for listening to this shorter episode of the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Christina Hepner with. Timothy Kuo and guest host Alyssa Otis, and we hope you enjoy learning about Guide Dog access rights, and advocacy.
And please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of
Alyssa: blindness. And if you'd like to learn more about applying to Leader Dog for our services, you can head to leader dog.org. Or call us at (888) 777-5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas.
And if you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcasts Stream. This
Christina: season of the Taking the Lead podcast is brought to you by a [00:21:00] longtime supporter of Leader Dog, the Mary p Delani Hellan Foundation. As you may know, generous donors like this one make it possible to achieve our.
The Mary P DOL Halloran Foundation supports the study of mathematics and mathematics education. For more information about our generous sponsor, visit their website at www.dolhalleranfoundation.org.