cHRISTINA: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner, joined by my co-host Timothy Kunow, and stepping in for Leslie Hoskins. Today is Alyssa Otis. And Alyssa is no stranger to the podcast. She's a member of our outreach team and has been a guide dog mobility instructor for over 10 years, and you'll definitely be hearing her voice more often than she'll be joining us on a semi-regular basis as a co-host, whenever Leslie or I aren't able to be here.
Alyssa, it's been a minute. What's been going on?
Alyssa: Oh, well thank you guys for having me. Thank you for welcoming me. I know I'm not Leslie, but hopefully I can fill in semi well. For me, what's been going on lately or since we talked last is just really trying to do more outreach. We are getting out there.
Conference season is getting rolling, so we are registering for conferences and we are presenting and we are hosting booths as vendors. [00:01:00] Dying Am just trying to keep everything straight. Yeah. So we can be as many places as we wanna be.
Timothy: Yeah, I bet that can be confusing on why, because you got a lot going on, don't you?
Listen.
Alyssa: Yeah. I, if I can't keep myself straight, that's what Leslie is for. She keeps me knowing what I need to do. It's a, a good team we have here.
cHRISTINA: Yes. Yes. And Alyssa, I know you recently got a dog yourself.
Alyssa: I did, I did. Now he, I call him a dog and I'm a big dog. Person. He is a small dog though.
cHRISTINA: Yes.
Alyssa: So he's about 15 pounds.
People keep asking is he gonna be a leader dog? And I keep saying, you would need a very long harness handle. He is about ankle high. Um, so I don't think we make a harness handle that long. But yes, we rescued a lovely little dog who is currently being tormented by our 2-year-old. Um, but we are trying to teach good boundaries and, and a love of dogs.
That hopefully will last him his whole life.
cHRISTINA: Yeah. So Alyssa's been, has a lot going on since we've last talked. Yeah. Toddler, the dog,
Alyssa: and now [00:02:00] podcasts.
cHRISTINA: What? And now podcasts.
Alyssa: What can't I do?
cHRISTINA: Right.
Alyssa: Oh boy. Yeah,
cHRISTINA: I know. I we're excited that Alyssa will be joining us more, um, regularly, especially because all of our schedules are busy.
So to have another person to step up in as a co-host is so exciting. So, uh, you guys will definitely be hearing more from Melissa. Welcome back, Alyssa.
Alyssa: Welcome back. Thank you. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. But today let's get into what we are going to be talking about. We are welcoming two very incredible volunteers, Lisa and Margaret, who are currently co raising one of our leader dog puppies.
cHRISTINA: Yes. First we have Lisa, who has been a volunteer puppy raiser with Leader Dog for more than 20 years. This year, she also became a team member as an administrator in puppy development. She's a proud Labrador enthusiast and deeply passionate about supporting the blind and low vision community. Joining her is Margaret, a volunteer puppy raiser, who's currently co raising her second leader dog puppy with Lisa.
Her first puppy [00:03:00] successfully completed the program and is now partnered with one of our clients in Canada.
Timothy: Lisa Margaret, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here this morning. Can you tell us what got both of you into the puppy raising?
Lisa: Well, it was a long dream of mine to work with Leader Dog. I grew up in the Warren area, so I was around the Rochester area and I was aware of Leader Dog.
Didn't know a lot about them, but um, always had that in the back of my mind. I wanted to be involved. And then life took me away from Michigan for about 30 years, and then I came back and while I was. Back. I was looking for a electric mobility chair for my husband, and we answered an ad on marketplace.
And that's how I met Lisa. She was selling an electric chair and we went and looked at it and while I was there, I noticed she had a sticker on the back of her car that talked about Leader Dog. [00:04:00] And I was like, oh, what do you, what? W talk about Leader Dog with me, you know? And so she did. And one thing led to another, and before you knew it, she had me recruited going to a, uh, monthly puppy class.
Went to the puppy class. The next day, I filled out my application. The next day I got a call and I said, what dog do you want? And I said, I don't care. I don't care about breed sex. And they said, all right, we have one ready for you.
cHRISTINA: That's
Lisa: amazing. Okay.
Alyssa: Wow. What a small world.
cHRISTINA: Yeah. Facebook marketplace is, I mean.
Alyssa: If you're not finding all places. Yeah. If you're not finding incredible items to purchase, you're finding new hobbies and volunteer opportunities, I guess.
cHRISTINA: And it sounds like, Lisa, you were already recruiting as a team member before even being a Dave member.
Margaret: I, I keep trying to recruit a lot of people.
Yeah. It's great. So, but this, this was an easy sell to be honest, and we kind of just let John to do his own thing and we just kept talking and it took like a couple. I think like three times we met.
Lisa: Yeah.
Margaret: Yeah. Before everything got sealed and every time she kept [00:05:00] coming back saying, oh, I've done this and I've done this and I've done this.
And she's, oh, you gotta pick up a puppy Friday. And I'm like, wow. Awesome. Oh, that's fast. It was very fast.
Lisa: Yeah.
cHRISTINA: Yes. So you guys are currently co raising a puppy. How old is the puppy? Tell us a little bit about what the puppy you currently have.
Margaret: Emmonds is, uh, getting ready to turn 14 months. Oh wow. He's a black Labrador.
He has been with us almost a year, and we decided to Cora because it kind of fit our lifestyles. But he is a joy 98% of the time. There's that 2% where he's a little dog reactive when we're working on that, and that's been our bugaboo, but he's just a. Great dog. He's great in public. He's great with kids.
He's great with people in the low vision community that he's met. He just is very appropriate with his actions and he provides a lot of entertainment in both our houses and everyone that has met him is just raved about what a great dog he is. So.
Lisa: And when he smiles, [00:06:00] when he lays on his back and smiles.
Yeah. And you can see his teeth. So he had a couple teeth issues and so he had a couple canines pulled and so he kind of has these funny looking teeth and it just makes you laugh when you see his teeth. Aw, that's so cute.
Timothy: So Lisa, what do you think are one of the greatest pros of being a co raises with somebody else?
'cause I doubt there's any cons.
Margaret: Definitely no cons. The biggest pro is having somebody who has your back and has the same mindset that you do and can share that responsibility. When Margaret goes on vacation, I am, you know, picking up the slack and vice versa. Um, I had surgery in November, so I'm like, Margaret, you're gonna have him for quite a few weeks.
And it's just that comfort that. Someone who sees things the same way that you do and you trust them implicitly with the dog that you've been given the task of raising and then the pleasure of raising.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely agree. Um, the flexibility [00:07:00] is there and. Organized, we're both organized people a little anally, you know, but, um, that helps also.
Yeah. I'm
cHRISTINA: not, yeah, and it's with people's lifestyles nowadays, this is such a great model because you don't have to worry, okay, who's gonna watch the dog while I'm on vacation? Or I have something that is happening that. Wouldn't be appropriate to take the dog too. Um, you don't have to worry about, you know, creating the dog for hours on end because you do have that other person.
I raised a puppy last year with some coworkers and it was just such a great experience to have a group of people to go through it. Alyssa, from the GDMI perspective?
Alyssa: Yeah.
cHRISTINA: Um, what do you think about this model?
Alyssa: Yeah. Honestly, it, one of the things that we really wanna make sure that our dogs are, is adaptable.
So we want to make sure that this dog is going to be able to do something in situation A that they can also do in Situation B and co raising models. If the CORAs are on the same page and they're communicative and [00:08:00] organized, as you guys say you are, which I very much appreciate as an organized person, all of those skills that the dog is learning as far as being adaptable and Puppyhood is gonna transfer, and that's going to only help the client in the future.
I also think it's a great opportunity. I know puppy raisers, no matter how many puppies you've raised, are. Always learning something new. Just like us instructors are always learning new, new things, new techniques, and I'm sure, and correct me if I'm wrong, but co raising, I'm sure you guys are learning a lot of different things that maybe you wouldn't have learned had you raised on your own.
Lisa: Definitely, especially since I've only, this is only my second puppy and Lisa's raised many more than I have. You know, I can always turn to her and ask for advice and, um, that's very helpful.
Alyssa: Yeah, it's a great community.
Margaret: It is. And every puppy is different, so it doesn't matter if you're on your first puppy or your 30th puppy, they're like your children.
They have their own personalities, their own little, you know, their little things they like to do, and it's like. We need to adapt to them. Mm-hmm. And help them with their learning [00:09:00] process. So hearing it from two different people, I think it's helped a lot for sure. Because then Emmonds is like, oh, I remember my mom told me to do this, and my mom said not to do this.
Alyssa: Yeah. Consistency is key.
Margaret: Yeah. She's. I think you're softer than I am. I'm a little, I'm a little harder, but you know.
Alyssa: Yeah. Parenting styles
Margaret: might differ slightly. We're definitely the yin and the yang. Mm-hmm. A great divorced couple doing this, so
Alyssa: Yeah. Kind of like what it is. It is. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you need a little break or you're going somewhere, someone else is there to kind of help and that's nice.
Timothy: So when it comes to the responsibilities of the dog, do y'all draw straws or what do you do? How do you do it?
Lisa: The responsibilities of the dog. In terms
Timothy: of what? Yeah, like going to the vet and, oh, you know, it's, it's my turn. It's, it's my holiday time.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Lisa: We do that together because I wanna go to the vet as Lisa does, and hear what the vet has to say.
We pretty much do everything together for Wow. Different [00:10:00] appointments. Um, now obviously there's been some. That I haven't been able to, um, attend. And that's okay. Um, I know Lisa has it all under control and it's gonna be fine. And
Margaret: yeah. And even with puppy class, typically what we do is whoever has the puppy that day is the main one working with him.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the other one is just sitting back and observing and taking notes and doing whatever. Um, and that's helped us a lot too. I think Margaret's been doing more of the heavy lifting the last five weeks since I started working here, where she hasn't. Entirely during the week, and then I get 'em on the weekends.
So I'm weekend mom. And that's definitely helped us. Oh,
Alyssa: for sure.
Margaret: You know, to be able to pivot and change what we had set up, which is like a every two week schedule.
Alyssa: Okay.
Margaret: So,
Alyssa: yeah. And you guys get to kind of create your own schedule then too?
Margaret: You do,
Alyssa: right? Yeah, we do. So I assume some people would do a, you know, a weekly switch, some might do during the week, during the weekends.
It's really, I guess, whatever works best for, for individuals.
Margaret: It is. And, [00:11:00] and one of us has FOMO when they're not with the dog. And of course, what is Margaret doing with Emma right now? Oh, they're in, you know, they're on vacation or what is Lisa doing with Emma? I wanna be part of that. Of
Alyssa: course.
Margaret: So it's always like, well here's all your pictures.
Yeah. Here's, here's what we did. Oh, I'm sure. But it, uh. You definitely wanna be there all the time, but you, again, you trust the person that you have picked Yeah. To do this with you. And, and we're each giving him different opportunities and different exposures and Absolutely. Um, different experiences. So again, he's just becoming more well-rounded.
Mm-hmm. And hopefully setting him up. Hopefully that transfers, that's when he comes back in April.
cHRISTINA: So trust is key in this model for sure.
Margaret: Most definitely. Mm-hmm. Most definitely.
cHRISTINA: And Lisa, we actually didn't. Talk about how you found Leader Dog more than 20 years ago. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got started?
Margaret: I will give you the Cliff Notes version. Yeah. My father was a long time Lion Club member, so I've known about Leader Dog since I was a small child.
cHRISTINA: Yeah,
Margaret: so it just always was something ingrained in White Cane week and all of the fundraising, et cetera. And I [00:12:00] moved outta my parents' house and I got a dog and I had to move back to my parents' house and we had.
Two 90 pound Labradors wrestling with each other members kitchen. She's like, I'm done. And so we donated that dog here to lead her dog, and she ended up graduating. And that was in the early eighties.
Alyssa: Yeah. Oh my goodness. We used to take donated
Margaret: dogs. Yes. And she was, she went to live in Pennsylvania, from what I can remember.
Um, and then after that I took a little break, obviously, and then got into it. And all my friends are like, Lisa, you can't do this. You love dogs way too much. I'm like, no, I can, because I've been around it. I understand what the mission is and. Someone else's need is way greater than what my want is. So I can get a puppy and I can turn that puppy around and I can love on it and return it.
And, um, so that's pretty much what I did. And now here we are, um, on puppy number 12 basically.
Alyssa: Wow.
Margaret: And, uh, I can't, I can't speak highly enough about what this involvement is and. Being a volunteer here first for so long, and now getting to be, um, one of the team members. But [00:13:00] I, I wouldn't be with another organization.
This is where my hair is and yeah, probably where it's always gonna be.
cHRISTINA: Well, thank you one for your years of puppy raising and the amount of life's you've changed and. That your dad was a lion. Lions are huge supporters of us. Huge. We were founded by three Detroit area Lions Club members. So just ingrained in you, which is really awesome.
So back to kind of this puppy raising model. Uh, what does it mean? To you, uh, Margaret, to not have done this journey for the first time by yourself alone?
Lisa: Well, the first time alone, um, it was all very new and, um, of course, I. Went back to Lisa. Yeah. Even before I got my puppy. And I'm like, what do I need?
Yeah. What do I have to prep for? I mean, I, I know basic things 'cause I've had a dog before, but she gave me this nice list of things that have worked for her mm-hmm. And things [00:14:00] to avoid and, uh, that was extremely helpful. So, you know, got everything all set up and, um.
Margaret: I worked your way through,
Lisa: worked my way through it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you're
Alyssa: unofficial puppy counselor.
Lisa: Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But I guess the first time around, just doing it all by myself, it was a lot of a responsibility, a lot of work, and not, I did not regret any part of it. I did have a dog. That, um, was awesome, but yet very dog reactive. So I had to really work through that.
And as a new puppy raiser, I guess in my mind I had this thing of, oh, I'm gonna get this perfect dog, this perfect bread leader, dog. Dog. And, and he was, 'cause obviously he made it through the program, but I think I put a lot of pressure on myself. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, um, um, but, and. Also, um, doing it by myself. Um, I also had other responsibilities [00:15:00] with my husband and his Parkinson's, and so.
Yeah, there were times where I needed help and Leader Dog stepped in and helped. And the vol, the Razor community helped and it all worked out good.
Alyssa: It's an incredible community. Oh,
Lisa: incredible.
Alyssa: Yeah. I personally have, have yet to raise, although it is on my bucket list at some point, I have a
cHRISTINA: puppy
Alyssa: sitting
cHRISTINA: under my desk.
Alyssa: Yeah. No, once, once I've potty trained the toddler, we'll move on to a dog. Um. But it, but everybody that I know, everybody that I come in contact with from that group, my friends that have raised, I mean, you can just see it. You can feel that people are there to support each other for the mission. And I know you mentioned that there was a lot of pressure on you, you know, that first time or really anytime you raise, but something for everybody to keep in mind is the dogs decide.
You know, so we know how much work our puppy raisers put into it, and instructors and our clients put into this, this team working. But ultimately it's that dog's choice.
Lisa: Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Alyssa: Yeah. And I
cHRISTINA: think we have to remember [00:16:00] the dogs are still dogs at the end of.
Alyssa: Yes.
cHRISTINA: Yeah. 'cause I'm actually temporarily hosting a little puppy at my house right now.
Um, and she's adorable and she's so well behaved, but she is still a puppy, is what I always have to remember. She will still go after my curtains.
Timothy: I'm gonna ask Alyssa a question. Do you think that having a dog that goes through puppy razors like Coke is a, has an advantage because the adaptability of those dogs?
Mm-hmm.
Alyssa: Sure. I mean, I think you can look at really any of our puppy raising models and say there's pros and and cons to both. So, you know, with the co raising, if people are consistent, fantastic. You know, I think that that can only help if people are less consistent. That might cause a little bit of confusion in the dog, you know?
Of course. But overall, it really is just, I think, a, a fantastic. Program, you could say the same about our, our prison program, for example. You know, these dogs are there getting super regimented and scheduled obedience and walking, but maybe they're not exposed to as many things on the outside Carnival rides [00:17:00] children screaming.
Um, so like I said, everyone has pros and cons, but I so far have really. Seen the, the pros coming out of co raising, group raising, corporate raising. Um, not everybody can do 365 24 7. Yeah. And, and I'm so glad to see that these other models that Leader Dog has come up with seem to be working really well.
cHRISTINA: Yeah. What would, would you say kind of communication is also key in this model? You have to be able to communicate with somebody else and be able to like have like, Hey, the dog did this today. Or knowing, Hey, I had the dog for this amount of weeks. This dog learned something new, or whatever. It's,
Margaret: I mean, we're in constant contact.
Yeah. It's sometimes obnoxious, you know? But that's what you have to do. Yeah. And if you're not, again, if you're not like-minded and. See, raising this puppy for what it is, and you're sharing the highs and the lows, and every day is not gonna be a great training day. Mm-hmm. And you're gonna question yourself and you're gonna be like.
Oh my golly, what have I got [00:18:00] myself into? Yeah. But you've got that other person to lean into. Yeah. And you know, when one of you has to do a little bit more of the heavy lifting, then that's what's great about this is you know, that built in person Yeah. That you turn to, um, even though you've got your puppy counselors and you've got your puppy coordinators, this person is on the front lines with you.
cHRISTINA: Yeah.
Margaret: And it just makes this so much more pleasurable.
cHRISTINA: Yeah.
Margaret: So.
Timothy: So the big question is when this is done with this dog, are you guys gonna do it again?
Margaret: Well, we did just fill out our application, send myself an email approving myself. So, but, uh, yeah, we, uh, definitely are getting puppy number 13 and number three and we're gonna co raise again.
We're, um, negotiating gender right now. Yes. And um, I think we're looking toward the end of April when we'll start raising, getting EMS comes back April 4th for his IFT and um, take a little break. I usually am like, um, I need like six weeks. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then it's like, you know, what? Two weeks later need.
Yeah. I was gonna say.
cHRISTINA: Yeah, I was gonna say, [00:19:00] are you gonna drop it off and then go to the back door?
Margaret: I don't know if I can do turnaround like that. Yeah. I have to definitely have a little decompression time. 'cause I always wanna know what that puppy's gonna do. Yeah, sure. And where you know where it's gonna take them.
So I always need a little bit of a break.
cHRISTINA: Yeah, I
Margaret: agree.
cHRISTINA: Yes. And um, Lisa, for you, how many of your dogs have made it all the way through?
Margaret: Statistically, one that I raised myself. Yeah. Um, I also helped my niece when she was part of the program before co raising was kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um. Her parents both worked at home, so I would take the dog to work with me, take her to class, do some experiences with her, and she was lucky enough to have three dogs graduate.
Oh
Alyssa: wow.
Margaret: Yeah. That's
Alyssa: really
Margaret: cool. Yeah. Lexi Medford.
Alyssa: Ah,
Margaret: yeah. Yep. Yep. So, um. Got to help her do a lot of things with, with her dogs. And by that met, uh, one client that got raised with her second dog, um, Baylor. And just, uh,
Alyssa: yeah.
Margaret: You know, just, I can't speak highly enough about being able to, [00:20:00] to do that And
Alyssa: yeah, you
Margaret: know.
Alyssa: Well, and you guys are always out there too, sharing about the dogs that you're raising. I know when you guys came in, I love little goodies. Um, and you guys brought us these little bookmarks with Emin's photo on it and then on the back some information about 'em. Are these things that you give out when you're out and about with the community?
How is going out and about with the community? You probably don't get more than five steps without someone stopping you, I would assume.
Lisa: That is very true, yes. Um, so in terms of community things we've done, I know that. Um, I have taken Emmons to the Ortonville Lions Club when they had, uh, vision screening, and they asked me to come with him and just be there as a presence.
And I did, and I had kids stop and read to him. And so when they stopped to read to him, then I would give him a bookmark and they were. Thrilled about that. Uh, also took him to the Ortonville Girl Scout troop meeting. Uh, they were learning about Leader Dog and they, uh, after [00:21:00] that they actually came and took a tour of the facility.
So, um, I was there and I passed out the bookmarks also. And then information that I had gotten from Leader Dog.
Alyssa: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, anytime you can go out and share, share about Leader Dog, share about your specific puppy. I'm sure people love it. And you guys do social media too, correct?
Margaret: We do. Um, Emma's has his own Instagram account and I I do manage that.
Alyssa: I fully support it. Yeah. So no judgment.
Margaret: Yeah. Typically it's like one story, you know, every day. And then we'll go and do like a monthly. Um, look into his life. Yeah. And see where he's been and what he's done from a dog's perspective. So the English is a little off, but, uh, I love that, you know, um, it's just a great way again to show.
Everything that you can do with your puppy and what these dogs are going to be experiencing when they get out into should they choose to do guide work. And the more that we expose them to, then that's just all the better for them. Yeah. And they know how to behave in certain situations and
Lisa: Yeah. [00:22:00] And, and I know that every time we're out in public, I'm always trying to recruit puppy raisers.
cHRISTINA: Fantastic. And Timothy, for you as a client who you're. They have made the decision of when you're going to retire your guide dog. What does it mean to you to hear puppy raisers talk about their journey in raising a puppy, as you may be preparing to come back pretty soon for your next one?
Timothy: Uh, well, first of all, I wanna thank them for doing it because, uh, without them, this can't happen.
They're important, uh, gear of this machine that it's gotta go, but it's, it's, it's a great, I love the, the co raising and the group raising and all that stuff. So it's just cool that, that that process happens and I want to thank them for doing what they do.
Margaret: Well. It's definitely a labor of love and it, as I've said, I wouldn't do anything.
Else, you know, raising these puppies and, and seeing them graduate and get paired with the perfect client. Um, it just warms my heart and I can't, uh, [00:23:00] I can't speak highly enough again about all of this. Well,
Timothy: who knows? The next one you raise might be mine.
Alyssa: So, uh, no,
Margaret: I think we can arrange that. Your eyes just got real wide there, Timothy.
Alyssa: And then, uh, what do you guys hope that listeners will take away from this about volunteering, about puppy raising? Um, and just hearing your journey. What do you hope people are, are taking away?
Lisa: I hope that they take away that it is possible for you to raise a puppy. It is not impossible. If I could do it, anyone can do it.
Um, you do need to think about the physical abilities with the dog bending up and down and that sort of thing. So you do need to take that into consideration, I believe. Um, you don't need a backyard. I do not have a backyard. Mm-hmm. So every time to know we go outside, we're on a lead line. And, um, 'cause that great was one of the things I thought, oh, I can't raise a puppy.
I don't have a backyard. Nope. You can.
Alyssa: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: Um, that's it. And don't be afraid to ask for [00:24:00] help. Uh, again, the, uh, leader dog community out there and the other puppy raisers are phenomenal. Can't say enough about 'em. So true, so true.
Margaret: Yeah, definitely. I guess we just forgot the question.
Alyssa: No worries. What are you hoping that people take away?
Margaret: This is a great organization from top to bottom. I'm talking from. The administration down to the volunteers that are here. Um, we're volunteers that are a thousand strong. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And we need everyone to help us to succeed in this mission. Unfortunately, the low vision and blind community is growing exponentially, and to be able to have a part in that is really.
It, it's very important. And, and like Margaret said, you can raise a puppy, you can give it back. Mm-hmm. If you know what that mission is, and you are just preparing a puppy for college, just like you would do with your kids. You are, you are preparing them and giving them roots, and then you, okay. Bup, it's time for you to decide what you wanna do with your life and whether that's A or B.[00:25:00]
Um, all these dogs are successful, which is kind of what we stress to our raisers too. If your dog is career change for one reason or another. They are successful because the other part of this that we don't talk enough about is that the dogs that need to be adopted
Lisa: mm-hmm.
Margaret: Because we need to be having a nice pool of dogs that will.
Be great in a home and be welcomed in a home and not be any sort of, you know, problematic for someone who does adopt them. But that's the other part of it
Alyssa: for
Margaret: sure, is that if they don't go into guide work, then they need to be a dog that is adopted out into the public and, and that's another big thing we do.
Alyssa: That's it. I love that you said all of the dogs are successful, it's just in their own way. So, yeah. Um, but thank you guys so much for coming today. I wanna thank all of our listeners for tuning into our taking the Lead podcast. My name again is Alyssa Otis. I'm here with those hosts that you know so well, Timothy Kyo and Christina Hepner.
We hope you enjoyed learning about our puppy co raising model with Lisa and Margaret, and please join [00:26:00] us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
cHRISTINA: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services or becoming a puppy raiser at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Street.