Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hopner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kunow. It's October, which means it's Blindness Awareness Month, and we have a lot of things happening at Leader Dog to celebrate.
Leslie: Yes, we just actually completed our second annual Low Vision Expo that we hosted on the Leader Dog Campus, uh, end of September.
And we do that in collaboration with the Rochester Hills Public Library. Um, and so we had exhibitors from all over southeast Michigan. Who represent organizations serving the blind and low vision community. So it was absolutely fantastic. We had a lot of people, we had presentations. It was just a good opportunity to come and learn a little bit more about blindness and low vision and any resources that are available.
So that was fantastic. And then actually we just hosted our, I don't know if it's our fourth maybe Cane Quest, um, on campus again, which is fantastic. And this is where kids throughout Michigan come and kind of [00:01:00] do a cane skill competition. So we have different obstacle courses created. We go downtown Rochester and cross streets and do all these different things.
And we have a ton of, uh, volunteers who are certified orientation mobility specialists, as well as just volunteers to come and help. With this event, but we had a lot of kids come and they get to evaluate and test their skills and then hopefully they learn something and come back next year and get a better scores.
But there's lots of giveaways and prizes and opportunity for families to come and connect and meet other families. And of course, learn about Leader Dog and what we have. To do.
Timothy: So you're telling me I'm too old, Leslie, you're
Leslie: too old. I know it's only for kids, which it would be so fun to do with adults.
Yeah. Because it is like an obstacle course and you have to go through different environments and there's things like locating an object, right? So we drop an object and then test out their skills of locating. So using a search pattern, we talk about cardinal directions, the human guide. Yeah. Teaching somebody human guide.
And then of course we get into the cane technique stuff [00:02:00] too. But it's a really great event. I feel like it might. Be a little too competitive. If adults did it, it would be fun. I should also mention we do that event in partnership with the Michigan Department of Education and Low incidence Outreach, so they're a huge collaborator with us and help us put that organiz or that event on.
But it would be fun. It would be fun. It
Christina: would be fun to see like. The competitive side of everybody come out.
Leslie: Yeah. And we talk about it like the same way with camp, right? We do camp with teens, but how fun would camp with adults be too? I mean, same activities, honestly. They
Christina: do have like adult camps out there now.
I've seen, yeah. On.
Leslie: Which is super interesting. We get asked all the time if we have camps for adults and I am all for it. I think it'd be super fun someday. Would I feel
Christina: like our programs are kind of like when they come to stay on campus kind of like camp. Not really, but Oh, it's a lot more, more, I mean the staying overnight part I guess.
Yeah. Getting fed meals.
Leslie: I will say too, our uh, residents has done a fantastic job of adding some evening activities in while clients are on campus for training that make it a little bit [00:03:00] more fun and, you know, um. Some good opportunities to meet other people. Like we've got live music coming in. We've got, yeah, they do like a charcuterie board night.
They do cornhole. Um, so trying to provide a little bit more entertainment in the evenings if people wish.
Timothy: Yes, I would love to see how that corn hole's. Play. 'cause I love cornhole.
Leslie: Oh my gosh, Timothy, next time you're on campus it's audio. So the cornhole boards have like to make a sound so that you know where to throw.
Yeah, it's very cool. And then if you make it in the hole, I believe it says something too. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, they're, I haven't seen those on campus. Yeah. I believe somebody made them and donated them. Oh, really? They're very heavy. Okay. But that's probably why I haven't seen them. Yeah, no. It's an effort to get 'em anywhere, but they're really, really cool and we do use them quite a bit.
We use 'em for camp and then, like I said, they're trying to incorporate more activities into the evenings too, so.
Timothy: Telling you technology is really booming right now for blind people. It truly is,
Leslie: yeah. Which is why we're celebrating this month, right? [00:04:00] October is Blindness Awareness month, and this is an opportunity to spread awareness and highlight the challenges that people who are blind or low vision experience and really also support and promote the advocacy and resources and what we can do to, to make, uh, it an equal playing field really, and really just consider.
Accessibility needs, advocacy efforts, all of those things. So October's a crazy busy month for us. Um, like I said, we've already got the ball running and then the rest of the month there are so many other events and podcasts and presentations and we're everywhere.
Timothy: Yeah. That's exciting. It's exciting times at Leader Dog,
Leslie: you know, when is it not an exciting time at Leader Dog?
I tell you what, we've always got things going on, so, um,
Timothy: and they close the kitchen.
Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think there's like maybe one time a year that happens. Oh my gosh. When we don't have clients on campus one or two times a year, I think. And
Leslie: it's sad. It's very sad. Yeah. Nobody likes an empty campus, so we try to fill it up as much as we can.
And these extra events are really cool too, to bring people [00:05:00] to our campus and show 'em around. But we're gonna get started because as Timothy just mentioned, technology is booming and that's what we're here to talk about today. We are bringing back a past guest guest,
Christina: but new topic. Yes. Maria Christi is a senior financial analyst with the dormitory authority of the State of New York.
She serves as a trustee on the Leader Dog Board and serves as a treasurer of Guide Dog Users Inc. Maria holds a JD in finance transactions and an MBA in finance from the university at Buffalo. Maria lives with Leader Dog Osaka, a chocolate lab.
Timothy: Maria, welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited about this one 'cause it's gonna talk about technology and we're gonna talk about the Meta Smart Glasses.
How are you doing this morning?
Maria: Thank you so much for having me back. I am great and looking forward Yes, to talking about these wonderful glasses as well.
Christina: Absolutely. So Maria, how did you first hear about the Metas Smartt glasses?
Maria: I had heard about [00:06:00] them on some podcasts, but I honestly didn't pay that much of attention.
It didn't seem like it was that interesting to me at the moment, for whatever reason. But then I was actually out to dinner with a friend who had them and was raving about them, and also gave me the opportunity to try them. And after that dinner I had to have them, and that was. And that was, that was May of 2024.
Oh, wow. And so I've really been able to experience their development over this time, which there has been quite a lot of over these past several months.
Christina: Yeah. So you've had them for a little over a year now. And sometimes it does take that, trying them out before you know you hear about things and then unless you try it.
You don't know if it's gonna work for you. So for those who don't know, what are meta smart glasses and what, what do they do?
Maria: Yes. So they are [00:07:00] the, they're an iconic pair of glasses, I should say, whether they are with, at the time of this airing either with RayBan or with Oakley. Uh, and they have speakers in the arms.
They have several microphones. In various locations on the glasses and a camera, and so you're able of course to use them because they have those speakers as a type of Bluetooth headset that doesn't block your ears. You can take calls, you can hear your phone speech with your screen reader, voiceover, talk back, what have you, and you can take pictures and record short videos.
You can send text messages, these being meta glasses. And meta owning WhatsApp and Messenger and Facebook and Instagram. You can make hands free calls on WhatsApp and Messenger and you can, uh, post to Facebook and Instagram. Um, you can listen to content hands free from several media sources like Apple Music or Spotify or [00:08:00] Calm if you have a subscription.
But the really exciting youth. For us as those who are blind or low vision is that you have hands free access to the meta AI assistant, and so you can ask for information like what you're looking at, what's around you, and this information can be based off of still images that are taken or live video feed.
You can use it to translate between certain languages. You can set timers and reminders. You can ask it those random questions. Questions that pop into your head and just so they are, uh, they are quite capable and they come with a charging case and the prices start at the time of this, uh, airing from around 3 7, 370 $9 or so.
So they're also fairly, uh, affordable, especially when you compare to the average cost of assistive technology type [00:09:00] develop. Devices.
Leslie: Absolutely.
Timothy: So with all the things that, that these glasses can do, and it can sound a little overwhelming, how easy was it for you to get used to in setting that up?
Maria: Yeah, it actually was very accessible to set them up.
Um, I will say that just given the rapid development of these glasses, when I set them up, the app that was being used was completely different. It was an app dedicated to the glasses, and now the glasses are part of a wider meta ai. App and so I suspect that it would be similar today. It's really just a matter of following steps.
There are a few times when the app will refer to, is this light on your glasses turned on? And when it's turned on, press continue. But being totally blind though, even though I couldn't see that light, it was just a matter of waiting a few seconds, you know, I would wait. So, you know, 10, 15 seconds, what have you.
Something like that, just to make sure everything was [00:10:00] set. And then I would press continue. And I did not run into a problem, so I assume the light turned on, and of course everything just proceeded. So, uh, it, it definitely was very accessible. It takes several steps you have to connect with, uh, well, you don't.
Have to, but you have the options of connecting to these various services that I mentioned. You can set the voice and the rate of the voice that you want to hear. And so, um, similar to just setting up any new device, uh, configuring options, but it was definitely very accessible. And the app also has some tutorials available where you can explore what these glasses can do, and that's a really great.
Section to revisit because as I said, it is always changing and developing.
Christina: Wow. There is so much more to these glasses than I thought. I mean, just everything you explained and that it continues to, uh, develop as they get, uh, I, AI gets smarter and all of that sort of things. So can you [00:11:00] share maybe a moment when the glass has made a real difference in your day?
Maria: Sure it's, and, and these are just really simple things, but really I think the ability to do this hands free is what makes a great difference. And so something as simple as, I had some clothing laid out and I wanted to know. The colors and if it matched. And so I asked for the color of each of the pieces of clothing.
I asked it to describe them if there were any kind of patterns. I asked if they matched and then asked why it matched to make sure that. As smart as AI is, we all know it does hallucinate at times, so make it, it makes things up. So I wanted it to justify itself to me. Um, and uh, and then I also asked if there were any stains visible on the clothing, and I did end [00:12:00] up.
Again, using the glasses, um, to be able to verify that with a, with a person. Uh, because these glasses also have the ability to connect to visual assistance services, like Be My Eyes and Ira and the, as a, the, uh, visual interpreter. This was Ira in this case, confirmed and, and agreed with what they said. And so the ability to just get all of that information hands free without.
Holding the phone in one hand and trying to juggle the clothing, especially having the two pieces of clothing, just being able to lay them side by side and have this information and quite quickly as well. This AI is, uh, very fast actually at, at processing requests and providing answers. Um, that was really a, a great moment for me where I could really see the potential.
But there, there are definitely so many. Of course, the hands-free navigation is a big deal as well with using, uh. Using some of those services like IRA, instead of [00:13:00] having to juggle with having my phone in one hand or putting it in a lanyard on my chest. Um, just that ability to be hands free. In general, we know as.
Those who travel with either a cane or a guide dog already one hand is taken up. Right? And so the other hand, it would be great if it was free to, you know, open the door. So just that ability to do so much, um, hands free has really made a difference. And I mean, I, I could go on there even just fun things like what is, what's this tree that I am, you know, facing?
Right? So, um, I, I really do enjoy using them.
Timothy: Christina early this year. I flew to Dallas Love Field and uh, I had my me glasses on and I didn't get assistance from my next gate. I had a connecting flight. Yeah. And so I knew the layout of the airport. There was no other terminals. It was all right there and one, so I turned on my glasses and went and turned on WhatsApp, and I called Cheryl and Cheryl through the camera, got me to my [00:14:00] gate.
Wow. Which is like 10 or 15 gates away. So we just kept going down and she was looking on the camera on her phone, and she found the gate number four, and that's how I got to that gate. So it has saved me in many, many situations.
Leslie: I think it's absolutely incredible. And I think what I love the most is that you can combine so many of those apps and different features in one device.
And like you talked about, Maria. Relatively low expense, right? $400 comparatively to what we see typically in the blind tech field, right? Most tech devices, because blindness in general is a smaller field or a smaller population, sometimes those devices are so, so expensive, and then a lot of times what we see happening is the support does not continue, right?
Money runs out, and then no longer is this service. Or tech available. So these are really exciting because they're mainstream, right? Everybody can benefit from these glasses, and again, with that price point, so many other people can make them available and have [00:15:00] access to them. So it's incredible. I'm so excited to continue to hear all these updates and things that are happening.
Both of you I know have been using these for quite some time. Would you say that this helps reduce the a need to ask for assistance a lot of times in different situations? I know you just mentioned in the airport, but are there other times when typically maybe you would have to ask for assistance that now you don't have to?
Timothy: For me, I can read menus. Now I can go to the restaurant and it'll, you know, it's, uh, you just ask, Hey, meta, what am I looking at? And she says, it's a menu. And it describes everything on that menu. And it'll go specifically for hamburgers and stuff. And, but only thing it does, I wish, I wish meta would do is be able to read prices.
That's the only thing it doesn't do when you read a menu, but it just gives, opens up the door. For now, I don't have to ask, Hey, what's on the menu? Absolutely, or I don't have to check it out before I go. I can just hold it up like a normal person now and just read a menu.
Maria: Very cool. And I've used it to identify, uh, [00:16:00] food packaging.
I've used it for, uh, verifying if it can see something like a door, uh, or asking it. Is there some text around here? Like if there's a. Sign for a, a building or, or a street. Um, I've, on the rare occasions where I've encountered paper currency being able to ask what that is, and that was especially useful. I was recently in Europe and.
Completely unfamiliar with the, uh, different Euro denominations and what those look like. So that was definitely, uh, very good to have. Um, yes, in terms of being able to, uh, also. Just ask for, you know, I was, I was in a store actually on that recent trip to Europe, and while I speak the language of the country that I was in Croatia, some of the products, it was a German store and there were some labels that only had German.
They didn't [00:17:00] even have English. And you know, the. People working there didn't necessarily speak German. I actually did try and ask one person for assistance. I was looking for hair conditioner and they really didn't know, and I had my glasses and I asked it. I said, what is this label is? In English, what is this product?
And it told me, and it was not hair conditioner, so it was very good that I asked. So meta, meta did a better job of providing assistance than the, uh, than the humans in that case. That's really good. But, uh, but just being able to, you know, even, um. To Timothy's example or mine of, of using the volunteers? Um, it has, yes.
It's lessened the need to ask for assistance from live people, if you will, in your environment. Yeah. But it also has. On the other side, it's made it easier to obtain that human assistance [00:18:00] as well when it's needed. Yeah, through the various hands-free options.
Leslie: And I know one of the things that maybe people will be concerned about, especially o and m specialists, right?
Because we're thinking about how technology is so fantastic, but. You can't always rely on technology for various reasons. So while this is so beneficial when you're out traveling and different things, can you talk about how it, the importance still to have your orientation, mobility skills, or to be able to travel independently with your guide dog, that this doesn't necessarily solve all problems?
Right.
Maria: Oh, absolutely. First of all, there's, there is no GPS on these glasses, and so it's important to mention too, the glasses are providing the video input and the audio output, all of the processing of information is happening on your phone. Mm-hmm. So, for example, I can ask it, which street. I am on, but I, if I ask it which direction I'm traveling, it doesn't know.
Or if I ask it, if [00:19:00] I'm at an intersection, it might say something like, oh, I can't see that sign. Well, if I start looking around right turning my head to try and get the sign, I might get completely out of alignment. And so it's absolutely important to combine this with other tools, whether that is. Using it as, uh, the audio output for a GPS app on your phone, or as you were saying, Leslie, if absolutely everything fails, being able to Absolutely use those skills.
Oh, my dog has stopped at a, uh, well, my dog has stopped. What have they stopped at? Let's check them out. Oh, the buildings have opened up the sound, right. All of a sudden it's just wide open and I hear cars in front of me passing Goodness. I must be at an intersection, right? Mm-hmm. Or just the distance, having your dog queuing them to find the door if you cannot, um, rely on, on this to, to give you that support.
So, absolutely, always, always, so [00:20:00] critical to have those foundational skills so that you can use them no matter what the technology is or is not doing that day.
Leslie: Absolutely, but what a great tool to assist with that travel. I mean, I think it's phenomenal all the things that you can do through these glasses and like you said, through your phone, but to just the combination and be able to do that all hands free.
I think this is so, so exciting and I'm excited that you guys are sharing about this so that hopefully other people will maybe give them a try, uh, and test them out to see if they're impactful of that. Do you have any advice for somebody who's maybe thinking about making this purchase?
Timothy: If I was gonna purchase these, I, I wouldn't say for, for anybody, I would, I would definitely do it myself because it just opens up the doors.
Like if you're, like I said, for when you're out and about and you're independent, it just, it's a tool that you can use. Um, it's changed my life. I put my pair of glasses on a blind gentleman just last week and when I let him read letters, when I let him read [00:21:00] stuff, his, he was so excited 'cause his world just opened up now because that's one thing he wanted to do, was able to read his own mail Now.
And he's capable of doing that. And just to see the excitement in his face, it was just, wow, I'm where this, this device can open up his life like it has mine.
Maria: And I would also second that just to really, you know, try it. Um, it's, the possibilities really are endless because of what you were saying, Leslie, with this being mainstream and because of the fact that it has succeeded in the mainstream and also because meta.
Is aware of us as a market, they really do have incentive to keep improving on what's already a great product. I mean, it used to not be able to read text if it was upside down. Oh wow. And now it can do that. It used to, it used to tell me that it couldn't say which street I was on for public safety reasons.
Mm. And now it can do that. Interesting. Right. So things now there's [00:22:00] this live AI that was only introduced in the past. Couple of months where it can also use a video feed instead. Oh, wow. And not only the pictures, so I mean, they are really are putting development into this and I would say definitely you have nothing to lose.
Try it. Of course. If I haven't, uh, heard people. Of people who have, but of course you can always, you know, return them if they don't work for you. But just try them and don't be afraid. The possibilities really are endless. I had at one point my computer stopped speaking and I couldn't get any screen reader to come, and I asked it what was on the screen and it told me it was some kind of, I forget, it was like some kind of Windows configuration screen or something, but at least I knew, okay, something is happening.
Right. Again, being able to do that hands free, I really just would highly recommend them. They're comfortable. I, and if this matters to you as well, I've had coworkers telling me how great they look and the integration is just really [00:23:00] visually wonderful. People don't even realize that there are, and, and. To, uh, make sure there, there is a light that does come on when you are recording.
Yeah. So that people are aware, but generally, you know, people don't even know that there's a camera in them until you point that out. They look great. They have so many wonderful functions. I would say just do it and try it out.
Timothy: Yeah. The sound quality on these speakers is, oh my gosh. Yeah, they're great.
Maria: Yes. I've listened to music,
Timothy: parts of music I've never heard before in a song. And I can, I'm, I'm blown away by the quality of the speakers.
Christina: That's really funny. Yeah. And Maria, you said that they have, uh, in the year that over a year you've had them, there's been so many updates and advances. If you could design the next version, is there any features that you would add that they don't currently have?
Maria: Ah, yes. You know, I had a couple of items on, on a wishlist, but I do think really these are software based, so I'm hoping that they would [00:24:00] come in in whichever version. Um, of course, hardware wise, it's great that there are versions now with longer battery life that the concern with the initial version, um.
I, from a blindness perspective, I wish at some time that there could be some guidance on item positioning for reading, like giving directions, move it closer, move it farther, or perhaps louder beeps the more that the entire text is in view, like certain apps have on the phone, because it just sometimes depends on the size of the text that you're looking at.
The, the distance has to vary, uh, for it to be optimal. Um, I would love for. That continuous video feed feature that I was mentioning, it's called Live ai. I would love for it to be able to just continuously search for something that I'm asking for. Like if I say to look for this object or find a door or identify some.
Item and I'm turning it to, in [00:25:00] order to search for the label, I would love for it to just be able to give me some feedback as I can get, um, with, for example, with the text, with the Seeing AI app on my phone rather than having to, to ask it continuously questions. And then, um, the, the integration of ira, the Visual Interpreting service isn't as, uh, seamless, I would say, as the be my eyes.
Free volunteer service, uh, with be my eyes, you can just ask the meta glasses to be your eyes and the app opens. Whereas with Ira, right now, they have to use WhatsApp. And so anyone from Meta, if you're listening, it would be wonderful if you could make that as, uh, as smooth as, as be my eyes, but really as, as you're hearing, I mean, so much of this was just software, so, and I really.
Think that, you know, meta has also, they've announced some kind of a co collaboration or research partnership within Envision who makes the Envision [00:26:00] AI app on the phone. And so they are very much aware of us as a market segment. And so I, I am optimistic that, that some of this could be coming.
Leslie: That's fantastic.
I'd love to hear it. And I really wanna point out a point that you made about, these are common glasses, right? You wouldn't have any idea that somebody is wearing 'em. They look like a pair of sunglasses or regular glasses, which is very different than previous technology. For individuals who are blind or low vision, a lot of things, it's like big wearable devices or big clunky camera or something.
On your cane, but this is something that nobody would really know that you're using. It just is, I think, a little bit more accepted in tech into the, uh, society or less obvious, which I think is really cool. And I also love that you, um, mentioned there's a little bit of a learning curve with using 'em. So you were asking it, you know, what color are my clothes?
And then you ask specifically, does it match? Is there any noticeable stains like so I'm sure as you're using them and you're learning the type of [00:27:00] feedback that's providing, you can tweak your questions to get the information you're specifically wanting.
Maria: Absolutely. Yes. And that, and that's the art of AI in general, right?
Whichever of the, if you're using chat GPT on your phone or perplexity, what, what have you, it's, it's all about the art of the prompt, right? Yeah. And so, yes, this is certainly no different. And again, things just changing over time. I mean, it used. To, if I said, you know, what do I see in front of me? It would just say, you know, something like, I dunno, a sidewalk and a tree or something.
But now, and I'd have to say, okay, well what's to the right and what's to the, but now I've noticed more recently it will be more detailed. It'll say the buildings to your right and some trees and some parked cars to the left and there's a blue sky or you know, it's more detailed. So yes, it's, it's just really.
Playing with it and kind of having this sense of adventure. This, the technology's there to work for you. So it is definitely fun to, um, to see what, what it [00:28:00] can, what it can do.
Christina: Yeah. And do you think that the, the AI in the glasses have kind of learned your conversation style and the way that you ask questions that it might be already answering them before you can prompt it?
Maria: I don't know offhand actually if this one might be remembering. I know some AI assistants do have that in their feature lists. Yes. Um, so it certainly is possible. And whether it does or does not do it now, it's again, it's possible that that will change. Um, you know, the reminders and the timers for example.
Right? That's remembering something that I'm telling it to remind me at a certain time. So I don't know the extent to which it's doing it now. But of course that is subject to change as me with all ai.
Timothy: Yeah. As right now it's not remembering, you know, I can talk about Glacier with her and she doesn't remember glacier tomorrow, so, okay.
It doesn't remember anything like that specifically, and I think that's a security thing, uh, right now. But like she said, with the ai, eventually it's gonna learn you. And it's just, [00:29:00] I'm just glad that meta seems like they're really trying to update these glasses a lot. And I, I'm just thankful we've got a, uh, a device that we can have that's affordable.
Because like you said earlier, Leslie, some of these. Companies are $2,000 for a pair of glasses and that's unaffordable. But this, anybody can get it. And with Amazon you can make payments every month if you want to. Yeah, yeah. So it's affordable. It's it it, and I'm grateful for it. It's just another tool along like my iPhone or a Android and your Apple Watch and.
Now we got the glasses, so I'm grateful for
Leslie: it. Absolutely. Well, I wanna thank both of you for sharing about your experiences with the technology and hopefully we'll, uh, drum up some new business for meta glasses. Yeah. With this podcast in them. Yeah. But thank you both. Thank you so
Maria: much for having me.
This has been fun.
Leslie: Yeah. Wonderful. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hepner. We hope you enjoyed hearing and learning more about the [00:30:00] Metas Smartt glasses. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at eight eight eight. 7, 7, 7, 5, 3, 3, 2. Don't forget you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.