Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kyo. I recently went to the Michigan Department of Civil Rights Summit on disability rights. Leslie and I actually went last year and I got the chance to go again this year.
And they had this whole talk on digital accessibility in ai. It's a huge talk right now, um, in the. Accessibility space with all these different technologies coming out. People were talking about the meta glasses, they were talking about the pros and cons, how it's still developing and the technology is still coming about.
So it's been great. Some of the presenters, um, were blind or low vision, and they were talking about how AI was talking their notes to them on. Their phones. That's awesome. While they were presenting. So they're like, there's a plus of it. But then, you know, at one point her notes went away and so she was like, but the technology of it is just not quite there yet for [00:01:00] some time.
Sometimes the notes works, sometimes they don't. Um, but it was just such a great conversation to. Listen and hear about and hear about all of the things that they're doing at the state level in Michigan with accessibility and what they're coming out with. So it was such a really cool thing. And I don't know, Leslie, you got a really cool AI experience for you recently as well.
Leslie: I did. And I love that you went to the summit. I'm jealous that I missed it this year, but I was off in uh, Scottdale, Arizona at the Vision Serve Alliance Executive Leadership Conference, which was a fantastic conference. And I traveled with a couple different team members here, but. The highlight of the trip, well, not the main highlight of the trip, but something pretty cool on the trip was we got to use the driverless vehicles.
So Waymo was there, which is the driverless vehicle, and they had a Waymo app, so you could request a ride just like you would request an Uber and. It was very, very cool. So we got one from the airport to take us to the hotel and it pulls up and it has like your initials on the [00:02:00] top so you know it's your vehicle and only you can unlock the doors with the app.
Um, and then you hop in and it kind of gives you a quick overview. But it was wild to just ride in a car and the steering wheel's turning and breaking and it was, and nobody's there. It was very, very interesting.
Timothy: I've seen that on YouTube, and I think it'd be pretty wild to do that. It really would. Yeah.
Would you do it? Would you
Leslie: use it?
Timothy: Yeah, I would do it just for curiosity reasons, but putting your trust a hundred percent in AI is a little nervous right now about that though. Yeah, I totally, it would be cool to try it.
Leslie: Yeah. I understand that in the back, or even in the front, you could see they had screens and it was showing kind of all of the information that the AI was taking into consideration, so it was showing all the other vehicles on the road.
It even was showing pedestrians walking down the street. Um, and it kinda showed the route where it was gonna go. I mean, it was very, very cool. I honestly was really nervous about it, but I felt really [00:03:00] safe in the vehicle the entire time. Yeah, it absolutely went the speed limit. Um, there were a couple times that maybe we should have gone a little slower than the speed limit on some of the curvy roads, but overall we used it the entire trip.
So I never took an Uber or a vehicle with a driver. We. Only used the vehicle or driverless vehicles. Yeah,
Christina: I can see that being like great for people who don't wanna talk to anyone. Oh yeah. When they're in a car. But like for me, I love to have conversations. So then I would be like, if I was by myself, I'd be like, okay,
Leslie: well there was like two sides of it.
'cause we were talking about how, yeah, you like to ask a driver for recommendations on restaurants or things to do in the area, that kind of stuff. Um, but then on a safety side. Also, you know, as a female, sometimes traveling alone, sometimes you're hopping into a vehicle, right? And you have no idea who that driver is.
Very true. And that can be a little nerve wracking. And, um, so I actually took it by myself, uh, from the air or for the hotel back to the airport. 'cause I was leaving a little bit earlier than everybody else. And so I was in it alone. [00:04:00] And, you know, there's a button that you can push to pull over or contact assistance or, you know, so they had some safety features in there too, but.
Overall really cool. And Timothy, one of the things I was wondering about was like, okay, so if I'm blind or low vision, how do I locate the vehicle? Right? Like, this is great that it's coming up and I don't know about the accessibility of the actual app, um, but you can have the, the vehicle make a sound, right, so that you can identify and locate it.
Yeah. So that was pretty cool.
Christina: Yeah. And I think one thing people wouldn't have to worry about is bringing their guide dog because there's Yes. Not a person that. Is operating that vehicle to leave. Yes.
Leslie: And that was one of the things. So, uh, one of the guide dog mobility instructors went with us and she brought a dog in training.
And so it was nice we didn't have to worry about any denials because there was nobody there to deny us. So we hopped in with the, the dog, no problem. Each time.
Timothy: So, you know me, I'm always about money. So is it comparable to Lyft, an Uber, and the price of using it?
Leslie: Yes. And actually it was most [00:05:00] of the times cheaper.
And that's probably 'cause they're trying to build an audience, right? They're, they want people to try it and take it. Um, but each time it was like several dollars cheaper than an Uber or a Lyft. So we were also being fiscally responsible. So I would encourage, yeah, anybody to check it out if you're interested.
It was very cool. I'm sure it's in other cities. I don't know what other cities, but it's definitely in Scottsdale, Arizona. Um, and very, very fun. So, and I think it's exciting for the future, right? Talking about ai, talking about accessibility and for the blind and low vision community. What a great resource.
So. I love dip.
Christina: Yes. And we're in a very transformational time with all of this. Yeah. So we're in the thick of it, which is cool.
Leslie: Yes, yes. So lots of things to come, but today we are here to focus on our guest, who is not only a leader, dog client, but also a volunteer.
Christina: Yes, Karen Burke has been a leader dog client since she was 19.
She's not only a client but a volunteer in philanthropist for leader. She has had her dogs through many life events, including college and a job at Beaumont. [00:06:00] Her current dog, Maya, is with her when she teaches piano and she also plays multiple instruments.
Timothy: Karen, welcome to the podcast. Uh, it's great that you're here.
Thank you. Is there anything that you can tell us more about you that C didn't mention?
Karen: Well, like she mentioned, I do teach piano two days a week, and I also play at a church on Sunday mornings. So Maya is very, very much exposed to music all the time. Yeah,
Leslie: you're busy. And not only that, but you're also very active.
You were telling us about a bike ride that you've got planned for this weekend. Yes. You do ski for lights, so talk about those for
Karen: lights. So. Um, so Ski for Light is a organization for low vision and totally blind. And, um, people who have, um, uh, oh, what is the word I'm looking for? Other disabilities. Other disabilities.
Thank you. Um, and so we go cross country skiing once a year. [00:07:00] Out west usually. Oh, wow. Um, this year we were in Provo,
Christina: Utah. Oh wow. There you go.
Karen: So we did that. And then I also got chosen to go to Norway at the end of March of this year, which I went to bite a stolen, which is where they had another week of cross country skiing.
And then I'm also doing a bike ride up in Alpena in the middle of June. So I'm prepping for that.
Leslie: Is that on like a tandem bike? It's
Karen: on a tandem, yes.
Leslie: Okay. Do you ride with the same person every time? Like you're familiar with your driver?
Karen: Um, well I am the person I'm going with, um, she lives in Lansing, but I do have a captain who comes from.
Ann Arbor or Brighton, uh, once in a while, and I'm about to contact someone who lives in the Royal Oak area, uh, to see if they might want a captain.
Leslie: That's awesome. So yeah,
Karen: we'll see what happens. I'm, I'd like to get some more captains, so if anybody here at Leader knows of [00:08:00] anybody, let me know.
Leslie: Yeah. I tried doing the tandem biking one year with.
Uh, 'cause we did it for camp for several years. I tried the campton and the person in the back and I was unsuccessful. Well, when
Karen: I, when I was here getting Maya, I remember Tommy, uh, brought out the seven passenger bike. Yeah, yeah. The conference bike. Yeah. And so, 'cause someone else in my group was really into biking and he's like, oh, can we all go, can any, can we all go on this bike?
And so we all got to go for a ride. In fact, we picked up Melissa Weiss along the way. Nice. And. Turn off at her meeting, so that was kind of cool.
Timothy: Yeah.
Leslie: Timothy, have you done tandem bike riding or have you been on the conference bike?
Timothy: Oh no, I have not had that pleasure yet. Maybe one day when I come up we can do that.
Yeah, yeah. We need to
Leslie: make that a priority. I know. That's very cool. It's. Seven people, but everybody's sitting in a circle. Everyone pedal. Yeah. And everybody has to pedal. And then there's only one driver. Yeah. Um, but
Timothy: it's, it's big. I'll, I'll be in the back not pedaling. No,
Christina: no, no, [00:09:00] no. You have to. I had a chance to go on it.
And when you go up that hill, everybody has to pedal or else you're not making it.
Leslie: Yeah. All legs on deck, that's for sure. Oh yeah.
Karen: I was tired by the time we were done.
Leslie: Yeah, that's wonderful. So you are busy, clearly, and then somehow you find the time to also volunteer here at Leader Dog. How did you get involved in that and what is it that you do?
So
Karen: actually, okay, so back in 2013, I think it was, um, I really, I, and over the years I'd been trying to think of ways to give back to Leader Dog. And so I, I started off by joining the Royal Oak Lions Club. Uh, which is a big supporter of Leader Dog, which is why I joined them. And so then I thought, well, you know, I'd really love to do something on campus.
But I wasn't sure what was available to me. So I called the volunteer department and they said, oh, well you can come to the, well, it wasn't called the canine [00:10:00] center then, but um, come to where we have the dogs and sit with them. So I started doing that for two hours a day on Mondays. And, um. I, I really enjoyed it and now I, I, well, I don't come on Mondays anymore.
I come on Saturday mornings, so, and Maya, uh, gets to hang out at the desk with, uh, one of the receptionists who works there. I. So,
Leslie: so you just come in and kind of huddle kinda at the dogs and just kind of keep em calm and interact with '
Karen: em? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. In fact, um, uh, a couple times I've brought in both my violin and my viola and I actually played music for the
Leslie: dogs.
That's genius. Yeah.
Karen: Yeah. In fact, um, I know I'm probably jumping ahead, but that's one of my memories, recent memories of volunteering. Yeah. Um, is I, I. Uh, I played some music for them and I noticed some of them like, uh, Brahms better than Bach, so that is so funny. And, [00:11:00] and the ones that didn't like what I was playing, they would howl.
So it was great. It was
Christina: great. Yeah. Karen, so what is it like for you as a volunteer? You know, you have had multiple guide dogs and so being able to. Do that as a volunteer and sit with these guide dogs in training, what is that feeling like for you?
Karen: So it's, it's so rewarding. In fact, um, I have a story to share.
I, um, was really curious as to whether or not I was gonna get into the class that I got into last year. But before I had any idea that I was in the class, I, I purposely went and sat with those dogs. Um, and I happened to sit with Maya. Okay. And so I thought, oh my gosh, if I get in this class, I hope I get Maya.
That's crazy. And so I, I, when I found out that I got in the class, I thought, oh my gosh, I wonder if I'm gonna get Maya. And so when my instructor [00:12:00] came and introduced the dog and said her name was Maya. I was so ecstatic. I said, oh, Maya, I sat with Maya and it was just, it was amazing. Um, because she, I don't know, um, well, I know you guys all know this, but I lost my, what would've still been my current leader, dog Minky, um, in November of 23.
And then I lost my retired leader dog six weeks later in December of 23. Yeah. And so I went through a, a six week period, um, without a dog. And that's the first time I'd been without a dog since before I went, went to college. And so anyway, um. I sat with Maya and I noticed she gave me her paw, like Minky did, and she rolled on her back like shadow did.
I thought, oh my gosh, I [00:13:00] really hope I get this dog. So, um, when I got her, the first thing she did was put both of her paws on my shoulders Mm. And gave me a hug. So that was. Quite special.
Leslie: The world has a way of working out sometimes. Yeah. That's lovely. And what a, what an interesting story. I didn't know that, but what a, you know.
Yeah. I don't know anybody else who gets that opportunity. So pretty always.
Karen: Yeah, it was, it was cool.
Timothy: So, Karen, you said you had a dog before you went to college, correct?
Karen: Well, I had a dog. Um, we had pet dogs, so, um, I didn't get my first dog until after my first year in college.
Timothy: So how was that like for you using a dog while you were in college?
Karen: It was amazing, um, how much more freedom and independence I got with a dog, because as you know, with a cane, you can't walk as fast. You've gotta use, you've gotta use the cane for every tactile clue. Whereas with a dog, you can walk pretty much [00:14:00] at a, at a reasonable pace. Um. As fast as any of your sighted friends or family or whomever you're walking with,
Leslie: do you feel like having the dog with you, uh, during college helps make.
Friends a little bit easier. We talk about the social aspect of having a dog and people just are drawn to dogs.
Karen: Um, sometimes it did. Other times it got a little bit overwhelming. Yeah. Because so many people would just come up to me and they'd be like, oh, can I pet the dog? I'm like. Thank you, but no. Yeah.
Um, I actually, I, I, I, my first response always is, well, she's working right now, so I can't allow anybody to pat her. 'cause I don't like to just say a flat out no, but
Leslie: a good explanation with it. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that would be challenging. Mm-hmm. And at 19, you're still so young and having to really advocate for yourself and make sure that you're, you know, protecting yourself and your guide dog would be kind of challenging.
Yeah.
Karen: Oh yeah.
Leslie: And so then you've had, this is your third [00:15:00] leader dog?
Karen: No, mine is my fifth.
Leslie: Fifth. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I get too many decades there.
Karen: That's okay. That's okay. Minky was my fourth, so. Okay.
Leslie: Okay. Yeah. So you're on your Fifth, fifth Leader dog. Mm-hmm. So you've been joining, uh, leader or coming to Leader Dog for a long, long time.
Do you remember way back when, I guess at this point, why Leader Dog?
Karen: So, when I was a child, um, in numerous occasions, I was educated about Leader Dog and my first, um, thing that I remember vividly was my fifth grade teacher was. Assigning book report topics to all the students. And she approached me and she must have had an association with Leader Dog.
And she said, Karen, I would like you to do your book report on Leader Dogs for the Blind. Oh. So, and I didn't know, I didn't know much about Leader Dog at that point, other than, uh, it [00:16:00] existed, but I didn't know, you know what? W any, all, any of the details about it. So we got some literature and my mom and dad, uh, read the information to me and I did my book report.
In fact, at some point I remember getting a tour, and I think this was more towards my beginning of my se be almost my senior year in high school. I think it was the summer between my junior and senior year. And so I came and, uh, rod Heline actually, uh, took me on the tour and Wow. Yeah. And, uh, he, uh, how did get this back in 90?
Lucky this I know. Wow. This was, was back in the summer of 92, I believe. Oh my goodness. And, um, and so yeah, he did my, uh, tour and we did, he assessed my cane skills and said, yes, I was definitely ready to get a dog. Um, but he recommended I wait until. After my first year in college so I can get the layout of the campus.
Yeah. [00:17:00] And so, um, that was, that was the beginning, um, the true beginning when I got the tour and then filled out my application and I got my first dog in May of 94.
Leslie: Very cool. I love
Karen: that.
Timothy: So, how long have you been volunteering for Leader Dog and how has it deepened your passion with Leader Dog and its mission?
Karen: So, I started volunteering in 2013 and, um, I just, you know, leader Dog, they, they, they provide these dogs to clients for free and to train these dogs. It is not cheap. In fact, I think I heard, the last I heard was. From the time a, a puppy is born to them getting through training and then being matched with their client.
I think somebody said now it's over a hundred thousand dollars. I could be wrong on that, so please correct me. Um, but [00:18:00] that is just an extraordinary gift. And so anything I can do to give back, whether it's volunteering or helping out with fundraisers, um, which I've done, uh, numerous times, uh, for anybody who may or may not know, I repelled down off the, I forget what the name of the building was.
Oh, what was that though? It was the Pontiac. Yeah. Um, I did the rappel twice, once in 2018 and, or. 18 and once in 2019, and in order to do this, you had to raise a minimum of a thousand dollars. The first year I did it, I raised over $10,000, and the second year I did it, I raised almost 7,000. That's
Leslie: incredible.
Karen: Yeah.
Leslie: And you were saying, so I think, was it called Over the Edge or It was over
Karen: the edge?
Leslie: Over the Edge was the fundraiser. Yeah. And yes, people repelled down the side of this very, very tall building in Pontiac. I can't remember the name of [00:19:00] it.
Karen: It was a 15 story building. Yeah,
Leslie: it was crazy. But it was super, super cool, um, and people really did like it, and it was a lot of fun.
And you did it twice and you were saying before we started recording that the second time was scarier than the first time. The
Karen: second time, I don't know what it was. I had less adrenaline the second time. Yeah. So I didn't have enough. Time to think about it. The, you know, the first time, but yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Uh, the second time I thought, oh my gosh, please don't drop me.
Christina: Yeah. The second time you probably know, you know, what you're getting into. Yeah. So you, you're thinking about it more. You're like, Ooh, I'm gonna propel off this building.
Leslie: Yeah. You've been involved in some crazy things. Yeah. Karen, and then most.
Recently we had the honor of you joining us at our dinner in the Dark event that was hosted this time in Royal or in Royal Oak in Rochester, downtown here at the Royal Park Hotel. Uh, can you tell us about that and how that came about?
Karen: So it's funny how that came up because I was actually originally asked by.
My friend who's also a puppy raiser, whom I come to Leader [00:20:00] Dog with on Saturdays if I wanted to join her and a couple of the other puppy raisers, um, for dinner in the dark. So I actually bought a ticket and um, but then when I happened to be on one of the client calls with Melissa Weiss Sice, um, that they do every quarter, I think, um.
She said, oh, has Steve Moran contacted you about Leader in the Dark? I said, or not Leader in the dark dinner in the dark. I guess it could be Leader in the Dark. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I said, no. I said, but I did buy a ticket. And she said, oh, well we would like for you to play music for us. And I think the, how that came about was when I was here receiving Maya.
Melissa came and took video because I was in the multipurpose, or no, not the multipurpose room, the lounge. Mm-hmm. Um, playing my violin and viola in the morning before breakfast. And their, and some of the clients were in [00:21:00] there with their dogs listening.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Karen: So she took some video and I think that's how that came about.
For me to come and play at Dinner in the Dark.
Leslie: It was so lovely. And I remember when you were here, I think getting Maya like you almost put on like a little concert. I remember coming down and listening too and it was beautiful. You're so talented. Um, but it was lovely having you at dinner in the dark.
Playing piano as people were arriving and kind of was ling It was fun. It was so classy too. Yeah. You know, it was just like a really classy event and having that music and having it be somebody so special to Leader Dog, I think made all the difference.
Karen: Thank you. Thank you. I hope I get to do it again.
Yes, I,
Leslie: I am sure if we are doing that event again, that absolutely, that would be a shoe in, because people loved it. I know people were standing, taking video and photos of you, and it just, it was so, so nice. Yes. So thank you for doing that.
Karen: Oh gosh. You're very welcome.
Leslie: And thank you for all that you do for Leader Dog.
Gosh, you've been involved with our organization for so, so long, um, and you're such a huge [00:22:00] piece of it, so it's wonderful and it's wonderful to finally have you on the podcast.
Karen: Oh, thank you.
Leslie: Thank you. What, what's next for you? What's in the future for Karen?
Karen: So, um, if I can share a story, uh, last week I actually got to go to the prison in Macomb County.
Um, with a couple puppy raisers and I got to talk to the prisoners about what it's like to be a client receiving a, a liter dog. Yeah. Um, because they, they were, they're currently raising a number of dogs for liter dog. And I'll tell you, it just really touched my heart because even though I was at a prison, these people are trying to do the best that they can.
Um, based on where they are and how they got there, and, um, you can tell that their hearts are in it, um, to help Leader Dog. And so they, they, they, by the time I was done with my story, they, they were very happy with [00:23:00] what I had to say and how much it impacted their, yeah, their lives. So my goal is to get out there and talk to more.
Um, people in the prison because I don't know how often they get to see, um, the client side of things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um. I know they unfortunately don't get to meet the clients who receive their puppies. Um, but, um, it, it's nice to at least give them that opportunity to see what a finished product of what they do with the puppies is.
Um, so that's one of my goals. And my other goal is to just do more speaking engagements and more fundraising for Leader Dog.
Christina: Karen, that's amazing. Our prison puppies program is so beneficial to us and to give them that opportunity to meet a client. And did was Maya with you?
Karen: She was,
Christina: yeah. Mm-hmm. So they got to see a, a working dog.[00:24:00]
I mean, that was just a gift that you were able to give them because they work so hard. Mm-hmm.
Karen: And I actually got to show them, um, how we learned how to target the dog to find something. And so that was really cool. Yeah. To be able to show them that,
Leslie: that is very cool. And we sometimes get to hear letters from, um.
The individuals that have raised dogs on the inside, and it is very rewarding on their end. So I can only imagine the impact that your chat had with them, uh, to see the, the rewards of their efforts. So that's really cool. Karen, thank you. I didn't know you did that. That's awesome. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for again joining us.
Today, this has been so much fun, uh, getting to know a little bit more about you. And again, thanks for all the efforts, uh, that you've put forth for Leader Dog in our mission.
Karen: Thank you. And I, I personally wanna thank Leader Dog for everything that you've done for me, especially when Minke and Shadow both passed away.
Um, because I, I didn't know how quickly I was gonna be able [00:25:00] to get in to get another dog. And so I appreciate everybody's efforts in making that happen as quickly as it did.
Leslie: Absolutely. And thank you so much. To our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast, I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hepner.
We hope you enjoyed learning about Karen and all of the amazing work she is doing here at Leader. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: If you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Street.