Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hapner with my co-host Leslie Haskins in Timothy Kyo. Timothy, you were telling us about a trip that you just went on recently. Where did you go?
Timothy: Uh, I went to the, uh, Maryland. I went to the uh, MD 22 W Leader dog rallies.
And had a great time. And the crazy thing is I met a bunch of leader dog, uh, clients up there. One of them happened to be in my class the year I got Glacier. What? Yes. Oh
Christina: my gosh. Gosh.
Timothy: My wife was walking around talking and she saw a guy dog, and she started talking to the guy and, and the, she, the name of the dog was familiar, so she came over and got me, and it was Bill.
I said, bill, you were in my class five years ago. And so it was a shocker. Oh my gosh,
Leslie: that's really funny.
Timothy: Yeah. And, uh, had no, had no idea that he would be there. And then, uh, I ran into Tom, who was a client, just [00:01:00] got his dog recently.
Leslie: Okay.
Timothy: And he, he heard that I was gonna be in the neighborhood and so he found out where I was gonna be and came and met me.
It was great to meet him. He listened to the podcast. So, hello Tom. And then I had three dogs, uh, future leader dogs, two of them. The, uh, puppy raiser. They heard my speeches and so they decided to be a puppy raiser, so I got to meet both dogs. Oh my God. That I helped influence for the, it was great. It was a great visit to be with the lines that week,
Leslie: it sounds like.
Yeah. I mean, that's awesome.
Timothy: Yeah, it was great. We raised a lot of money for Leader Dog and that was the most important thing.
Leslie: Yeah. But getting people into the organization, that's fun too. You get to talk to people that you directly impacted. Yes. I mean, that's a really big deal, Timothy.
Timothy: But running into the bill was just, it was freaky.
You never think you're gonna see these people ever again. Yeah.
Christina: Yeah. And there
Timothy: he is, you know, so it was, it was wild.
Christina: Do they all live in Maryland or were they all there for the convention?
Timothy: Uh, one drove from Pennsylvania, so she drove way out of her way. Yeah. And then the other one was [00:02:00] there in the district with the other dog.
So, and Bill, he lives just about to 30 minutes from where I was. So he is in that district also. And the other guy was just heard that was gonna be there. So. So they were all right there.
Leslie: Goodness. Drawing a crowd. You got like a, I know. A fan base. I know. Which you totally do. Uh, people are always so excited Yeah.
To meet you and asking if you're around or around campus or when you'll be on campus next, so,
Timothy: well, if somebody wants to buy my poster, I'll start setting it on.
Leslie: Oh my. All right. Calm down now.
And I get the first copy.
Timothy: But it was, it was a great visit and it was, it was a blessing to see everybody and to experience it. And while we were there, we joined the Maryland Lions Club. So when me and Cheryl, now Lions in that district, so that was another great opportunity.
Leslie: We How, how does that, yeah, yeah.
Timothy: Well, jinx
Leslie: boat, well.
Timothy: They, [00:03:00] if all the clients, you know, uh, multiple District 22, that's Maryland and Delaware, they do a lot for Leader Dog.
Mm-Hmm. They do a lot. So I want to be a part of that district because they do so much for me and everybody else. So I wanna be a part of that. So we joined, I. So it was an honor. Now we are aligns of that district,
Christina: so how does that work when you work live in Georgia? Yeah,
Timothy: uh, we're gonna, we're gonna find out, we'll be doing the meetings via Zoom, me doing the podcast and other stuff, uh, accounts for my, uh, my public stuff that I need to do for, you know, helping the community and stuff.
So, we'll, we're gonna find out and I'm excited about it.
Christina: Very cool. Yeah,
Timothy: it's, it's
Christina: great. Are you guys gonna move to Maryland now? Is that, is that a hint? They have have a
Timothy: winter there. They have a winter. Yeah. You winter know, but, uh. I love Maryland. I love Delaware, and it's a beautiful part of the country.
While we were there, we went to Gettysburg. It was, it was just awesome. Yeah. And, uh, uh, it was very pretty. And if you ever get a chance to go to Maryland, everybody [00:04:00] should go to Maryland.
Christina: Did you have like a lobster roll? Isn't that like what Mm,
Timothy: no, crab cakes. Crab
Christina: cakes. Oh my
Timothy: gosh. Yeah. Cheryl had crab every day just about, it was awesome food up there.
Um, yeah, they, they loved their seafood in Maryland.
Christina: Yeah, I've always said I wanted to live on the East coast just because of the seafood. Really? Yeah.
Timothy: Yeah. It was great.
Christina: It was great. I thought it, I always was like, that's where I'm gonna end up, but here I
Timothy: am in Michigan. You in Michigan. Well, there's a big, there's a big great lake near you.
That's true there. It is. True. But
Leslie: any direction you wanna go. Well, that's awesome, Timothy. Thank you for sharing, and I'm so glad you were able to run into those individuals. I think that's, that's so fun to connect and share experiences and all that good stuff. So as always, Timothy, we are in awe of you and we thank you.
Oh yeah. For all of the work that you do. Truly, you are an inspiration to the organization and we're just really lucky to have you. So thank you.
Timothy: There you are. Oh my gosh, Jim, Andy. I kid. I kid, I'm very humble. I'm just, it's a [00:05:00] blessed, I love doing this. I think that I'm helping others and that gives, you know, me a purpose and I'm enjoying it, so,
Leslie: absolutely.
Well enough of you moving to Maryland. We're gonna hop right in it today because our guest is newer to Leader Dog, but not so new to advocacy. Yes,
Christina: Erica is a dedicated and experienced educator who has worked with students and individuals of all ages in varying abilities. Erica is passionate about advocacy and chairs the Committee on Disabilities for the town of Amherst, New York, and works part-Time as a project assistant at the Institute on Disability Awareness at Niagara University.
Timothy: It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast this morning. I followed your story while you were at Leader Dog, but let's start. What is your journey with blindness? What do you got going on with it?
Erica: Oh, well first of all, Timothy, thank you so much for having me today. It's such a pleasure to be able to join the the big leagues and talk to some famous leader dog people.
So, yeah. Um, [00:06:00] my journey to blindness is like everything else in my life, very unique. I was, uh, diagnosed in 2011 with a rare, uh, and progressive neuromuscular disease. It's called mitochondrial disease. And at the time I was diagnosed, we did not expect it to have any impact on my vision. And it had, uh, some impact on, uh, you know, other.
Other parts of my life and other parts of my body. But, uh, the vision issues didn't start until around, um. I would say maybe, um, 2016 or so. Yeah, so maybe around 2016 and I started having some difficulty with night vision and, um, eventually as things progressed from there. So when I was, um. I wanna say probably around, uh, 2021 is when I was officially declared legally blind.
Um, so it's been an interesting journey and I had to do a lot of [00:07:00] self-advocacy from the point of being diagnosed with the mitochondrial disease and then self-advocacy with my vision because the disease. That I have is so rare. Mm-Hmm, that it's very difficult to find, um, even people within the medical community who know you, know, where to direct you and how to help you.
And I knew what I needed, but I didn't quite know how to find those things.
Leslie: Absolutely. That can be incredibly challenging. So how, what motivated you, I guess, because it, that's kind of a pivotal moment, right? Like you can kind of sulk into it and, and not seek or advocate or push for services. What kept you going?
What really motivated you to continue and, and start all the advocacy?
Erica: That's such a great question. I, I think what motivated me in terms of pursuing the self-advocacy and really just kind of, you know, as they say, like pulling yourself up by the bootstraps was just, I was really determined to be able to live as independent [00:08:00] and as.
We'll say typical in air quotes. Mm-Hmm. As typical life as possible. And I found that anytime I would go to the doctors or have the conversations with the professionals and get, you know, the bad news and the, the not so, you know, great prognosis or whatever, they would always say, you know, you have a really good attitude and that is so important.
So, so keep that up. And I wanted to, you know. Make sure that I was getting the things that, that I needed. And eventually, once I was comfortable advocating for myself, that advocacy turned into advocating for other people within my community. And my partnership with my first, uh, service dog was really instrumental and kind of kicking that advocacy into high gear.
Because he gave me such a new lease on life and really expanded my independence, I was able to do things with him that I, I had only like dreamt of for years at that [00:09:00] point.
Timothy: Yeah, Erica, I got the same example with Glacier. It just seemed like when we got your first guide dog, it's just like the whole world just opened up.
And I'm glad you had a good attitude about that. 'cause most people don't. I was one of those people that did when I was told about my rp, but uh, we all need to realize it's not, life is not over with and we need to, we dictate our life. Even with this diagnosis, and I'm glad you was able to do that.
Erica: It's very true, Tim.
It's, it's quite a journey. It really is. I think that the, one of the most difficult parts is the days where you find yourself in a situation that reminds you of limitations, but everybody has limitations and remembering that I think is important too.
Leslie: Absolutely. I think that's one of the things we talk about all the time too, is like, you know, sometimes blindness is a very obvious disability, right?
So like if you're traveling with a cane or with a service dog, you know, people identify you that you have a disability. But like you're saying, so many people have [00:10:00] limitations and other things going on that aren't always as visible. And we always talk about like, you know, maybe if somebody is looking at you, maybe they just really enjoy your shirt.
Or you've got a super cute haircut or whatever it is. And so, but it's hard to kind of be in that mindset sometimes. And you and Timothy are such great examples of staying positive and, and pushing and advocating for education. But one of the things we have written down here is the Town of Amherst Committee on Disabilities and the role there.
Can you tell us a bit little bit about the things that you did with that?
Erica: Sure. Absolutely. So I joined the Committee on Disabilities in 2021, and I joined as a member. And like most things in my life, I start small and then I go real big, real fast. I mean, I, it was only, you know, I. But a year and they're like, would you like to run for chair?
Sure, why not? Um, but you know, it's funny. So I, I ended up finding out about that. I've always been really good at networking and that networking really stemmed again from the [00:11:00] advocacy, from kind of looking around and realizing, you know, I haven't unmet need personally. Mm-Hmm, I need to fix. And then I need to see how I can help others doing the same.
And I was having some trouble with access issues and just community education regarding working my first service dog. And through a series of phone calls, I ended up connected with who was a man who was now my boss at, um, Niagara University. And we'll, we'll talk about that later too. And he said, you live in Amherst.
Do you know about the Committee on Disabilities? And I went. No, but I'd like to. So I ended up on this committee and our role there is to work alongside the town of Amherst. And make sure that we are doing the absolute best we can to make Western New York inclusive and accessible to people with disabilities and their families.
So we study, um, town facilities. We study up and coming projects to make sure [00:12:00] that they are meeting, you know, not just the a DA, because we know that Air D the a DA is. Bare minimum in terms of compliance. Our goal is to go above and beyond. How can we, you know, really make our community an example. And I think that, that, you know, town of Amherst does a great job with that.
We have a nice committee. We have, uh, people with disabilities, we have people who have family with disabilities, and we have professionals in the community. We have a wonderful liaison who's on the town board and some of the projects. That we've worked on in the past couple of years have been making sure that emergency phones on our local bike path are accessible to people with disabilities.
We have collaborated on inclusive playground projects to make sure that there are, um, there's equipment available for children with varying disabilities including vision impairments and blindness. Uh, children who use wheelchairs so they can experience things like swings [00:13:00] and uh, zip lines, you know, right here in our community.
We've also done a lot with pedestrian travel and, um, for those of you who are blind and visually impaired, you know, um, how difficult it can be to just get down the sidewalk sometimes. So that is something that we take, uh, very seriously and we work alongside some wonderful people in the town. We have liaisons with the local police department and other agencies, and it's really just all about spreading awareness.
Advocacy and education within the community. We've done a lot on service dog etiquette. We've talked about how to make, uh, multimedia for local businesses accessible to people with varying disabilities, including blindness and vision impairments as well. And it's great work. It's all volunteer. And, um, I'm very lucky.
I have a wonderful co-chair as well, uh, who's also a strong advocate in the community. And my, uh, boss from [00:14:00] Niagara University. C is also a member. Wow. So we, um, go back real far, was founded in, uh, 2007 and we're going strong in our community here.
Christina: That is amazing to be able to do so much and have so many connections within your community and your community to be so open to that as well.
I know you mentioned that your boss is on that committee as well. So tell us a little bit about what you do at Niagara University, um, and how you got started there.
Erica: So that's a really fun story too, when I was advocating for myself and making the phone calls that I, that I talked about earlier in terms of, you know, spreading some more awareness and, and getting some education out there.
My community regarding working with a service dog. My boss was one of the gentlemen that I was connected with on the phone, and he and I were talking a little bit and he said, you know, I. Run this disability awareness training program. I founded this in 2004. [00:15:00] I am working out of Niagara University. We have a disability awareness training program at Niagara University now, and he goes, I would really love to have you as an employee here, like I'd love to be able to hire you.
Um, we're not quite expanded yet, but we will be in the, you know, the next year or so. And, you know, sure enough, um, you know, about a year or so later, he came around and, and offered me a job working for the disability Awareness training program. At NU and the history of that program, like I said, it was founded in 2004 and it started with a first responder training.
So the role of the program was really to train police probation officers, the fire departments, um. Uh, ambulance crew, so, you know, EMS paramedics and how to interact with people with varying disabilities who were in the middle of a crisis or having a medical emergency. You know, as we know, that's a really scary [00:16:00] time for anybody.
But particularly when you have any sort of limitation, I think we find that it's difficult enough navigating the general public, and then when you're in a crisis, it can be even more challenging. So that's how the program got. Started and now we are expanding and we've formed the Institute on Disability Awareness at nu, and that'll have been launched on May 28th by the time this podcast airs.
So my role there as project assistant. Is doing research, it's writing, um, materials for trainings that we provide, and increasing awareness and helping not just the general public, but specific subsets of the public to better understand and work with people who have disabilities.
Timothy: Well, it sounds like Erica, you're doing a fabulous job there.
Anybody could be an advocate. This world that we live in is a sighted world, and they don't understand what we need as, as visually impaired [00:17:00] people. So the only way to change it is for you to speak out like I did in my town, or you can do anywhere across the country. I had to call the state, or I had to call the city, and we had, uh, the, uh.
Crosswalks, the audible crosswalks installed because I had to do that. I called and I made that suggestion. And so my advocacy would be helping somebody else in this town. So it's great that you're doing this, this kinda work. What is this, uh, this playground? I'm reading on your bio that there's a, uh, inclusive playground.
What is that all about?
Erica: So, oh, that's such a great question, Timothy. So the inclusive playground, we actually have a couple in the Western New York area, and we have one in Amherst. They called the Billy Wilson playground. And that was, uh, founded a few years ago. And we had, uh, the Committee on Disabilities was instrumental in working alongside the town architect and the, uh, contractors who built the playground in terms of giving feedback on how to make that [00:18:00] playground.
Accessible, but we're working on a new project right now and that'll, that's the Amherst Central Park project that will also have a very large and inclusive, uh, playground as well. And we just met, um, two months ago. With our town architect and with the director from the Youth and Recreation Department at the town of Amherst and with some of the, uh, builders and architects from architects, and they're, I mean, wonderful, wonderful people.
So cool to just, you know, think about and visualize. All the great things that they wanna be including in the playground. They talked about some of the swings where, you know, a child who uses a wheelchair can roll their chair onto a platform and be able to experience the sensation of being on a tire swing.
We talked about having a little, uh, almost like a little hot. They look like colorful igloos in a [00:19:00] way for a child who has sensory needs to be able to take a break from the hustle and bustle of the playground. And, uh, we also talked about putting a tactile and a braille, um, images, you know, for example, like a, a fireman series where they, a child could feel, you know, the outline of the fire boot or the fire hat or the hose that have the, the braille lettering under there.
And we're trying to work on, in. Incorporating American Sign language into the playground as well. So this is really a project where everyone in the community, regardless of how they choose to or are able to experience play, can participate and just have fun with their friends and with their families.
Christina: Yeah, that is amazing. I think there should be more playgrounds exactly like that. But let's kind of move, we're quickly going real fast through this, but I wanted to circle back, um, on your time at Leader Dog. So if you can [00:20:00] tell us, you know, how did you find Leader Dog? And, um, you know, what, why did you choose to come to us for services?
Erica: Oh wow, that is such a great question. So how did I find out about Leader Dog and why did I choose Leader Dog? So my story, like my story with most things in my life is very unique. My first service dog was from Canine Companions in Medford, New York, and his name was Jet. And Jet was a very unique dog, and when I was partnered with him, I had had some vision issues, but not to the extent that I was legally blind as I progressively lost my vision during the early, you know, years of our partnership, we were able to successfully cross train jet to do guide work, which is an anomaly in and of itself.
But when we were looking towards a successor dog, I, we were thinking, you know. A needle in a haystack. Let's not, you know, put our eggs in that basket. Again, as much as I would've loved to have worked with canine [00:21:00] companions, I, I can't say enough about the wonderful work that they do. It just was very clear that it would make more sense to go straight to a guide dog organization, and that's what my team felt was gonna be.
I would be best served. And so unfortunately, in the fall of, uh, 2022, jet was diagnosed at the age of six with a really. Rare cancer. And, um, he passed away not even two, two and a half months later. So it was a, a horrible, you know, you know, losing that independence and the trauma and the grief of going through such a major loss, I mean, it really, it hit me and it hit my family really, really hard.
Um, jet was instrumental in terms of, you know, the reason why I was able to do these things. Get a part-time job, do advocacy work in the community. You know, I was very much, you know, housebound before that. I wasn't able to be out and about and doing things without that [00:22:00] assistance, and he was a huge reason why I was able to be as independent as I was.
So looking forward to a successor, I found myself very overwhelmed. You know, I have my, my dog is sick and we know he is not gonna be with me much longer. And you're also thinking like, now what am I gonna do next? Like, what happens now? Where do we go from here? So I knew absolutely nothing about the Guide Dog programs and I started researching them and I applied to a few.
And the more conversations I'm having with these schools, the more I'm like, eh, you know, is this like, is this, what is this? What things are like, like I don't really know if I really wanna do this anymore. Like. I can't, you know what, we just fast forward or remind ever and things just need to go back to the way they were.
Like I, you kinda get into a, a state where you feel like, I don't even wanna go through this anymore. Like I just, I don't want this to be the reality. Like let's just press the pause button. And then my social [00:23:00] worker through Via of Western New York, which is a visually impaired achievement of Western New York, she said, why don't you look into Leader Dog?
And I went. What's a leader dog? I had never heard of you guys before and I did some research and I picked up the phone and I called you guys and I was so surprised when I got a call back because nowadays you make phone calls and nobody calls you anymore. You just kind of get your messages, get lost in the EERs.
But not only did I get a call back, but I got to have a very nice. Lengthy conversation with Emily Sharp from the training department, and I told her about Jet and I told her about my experience with him and all the things that we'd done together. And we talked about the training philosophy at Leader and we talked about, you know, just the school environment and community in general, and it just sounded like the most.
[00:24:00] Perfect fit for me. It really, it really did. She talked about her dogs and the types of dogs that you guys train, and one of the things that was really important to me was working with a school that had a force free environment that worked with the animals with compassion and that put animal welfare as a priority.
And I really felt like talking to Emily that that was a value that leader held very closely and I wanted to be a part of that. I. And she just, you know, having that conversation with her in the middle of everything that was going on with Jet was a very, it was a reassuring conversation. You know, I felt like I was talking to someone who really, truly understood just the amount of independence and how important these dogs are to our lives, and I.
You know, I think that being a part of a family community like that, someone that really gets it, that was very important to me. So [00:25:00] I, uh, ended up sending out, you know, sending in my application, we made our little video, and I'll never forget Emily, um, she called me to let me know that I was accepted into Leader Dog.
And she said, she goes, you know, we watched your videos with Jet. And she said that was some of the most. Beautiful guide work that we had seen and it was so, you know, so cool that you guys did that independently and we're so happy to welcome you, you know, into the leader family. So, um, you know, we fast forward to January then, so it took about a year to get matched to get that, that call.
And Laura called me on December 13th, so right before Christmas. Yes. You know, the most wonderful Christmas gift, you know, 'cause my, my first Christmas. You know, with Jet, um, with him being sick, you know, he died a few days after Christmas. Mm-Hmm. So that was a very hard holiday. And [00:26:00] to have, you know, a year later to have, you know, you don't expect, that's where you'll be in a year, is getting that magical phone call.
And if, you know, December 13th is actually the feast day of St. Lucy, who's the patron saint of the blind and visually impaired in the, um, Italian and uh, Swedish communities. And Laura knew this because I made the comment to her. I said, oh my gosh, it's Feast of St. Lucy. And she went, I.
It's very, it was very cool. So, you know, she knew, she was so excited, you know, to, to call me and everything. And it just, it felt like it was meant to be. And we went through the holiday, we went through Christmas, this past Christmas with just feeling like a weight had been lifted off of our shoulders, because that year without my dog was so hard, you know?
And you don't know what's gonna happen next, you know, like. Who, who are they going to find for you? You know, who is this, this new successor going to be, [00:27:00] um, so packed. My bags in the middle of winter and I'm from Buffalo. So my flight out to leader ended up being canceled because it hadn't snowed all winter, but the first blizzard of the season hit the weekend that I had to leave for later.
So we were delayed a day, and I'm not a great flyer. I'm a real nervous flyer. That didn't really help, but I, man, I got to campus. I got there and I. Just right away felt, you know, very much at home, just it felt independent. I felt like I was, you know, respected and treated as an adult who knew what my needs were and knew how to advocate for myself and everybody just, you know, treated me like family.
And it just really, it automatically felt like this was where I was meant to be. We had a rough few days. Um, the dog that I had been matched with made it clear very [00:28:00] quickly that this wasn't the gig that she was up for. Um, and they weren't really sure if we were going to be able to, you know, match me with another dog then, or if I'd have to go home and wait a little bit longer.
And at that point you're thinking, oh my gosh, it's been such a crazy hard and difficult journey this year. And just to have more, you know. Adversity to have to overcome. And I remember when you know that that afternoon, it was a couple days after match day, and I was sitting in. In my room and I was talking to Andrea and, and I mean, again, just so wonderful.
And she said, you know, she's like, are you okay, Erica? Are you're, we, we promised we're gonna take care of you, but are you okay right now? I said, Annie, I am nothing. I. If not comfortable with adversity. That's been my whole life. We will figure it out. I know we will. And my instructor came in, he said, I have good news for you.
He goes, I think we have a doc that we can give you tonight. [00:29:00] Oh my gosh. And, um, see how it goes. And it was an unusual, it was an unusual situation. He was preparing, my dog was actually preparing for the next month's class, so he got to graduate a little early. And his name is Fazi. He is a German Shepherd lab mix.
And um, I, you know, it was just such, it was a, it was a crazy couple of days. It was very emotional. It's very difficult to, you know, you go and you've got these just, you're so hopeful and then things just don't always go the way they're supposed to. But that's life. Yeah. You know? But I knew I was in good hands and I trusted leader, and that's a hard, that's a hard trust.
You don't wanna misplace that trust, you know, you're trusting. Strangers with your independence, with your safety. Um, and it was a trust that was very well [00:30:00] placed because Fozzie has turned out to be everything. I asked for, everything I needed at this time of my life, and we spent the rest of class going.
It had to have been some sort of divine intervention. Yes. That jet had arranged somehow to make sure that Fozzie and I ended up together. So. That was my experience with, um, with getting Fozzy and we had, you know, gr it was a great class. You know, I look back on my experience with Canine Companions and getting my first dog and I feel like those, you know, two weeks that I was there at team training, they were some of the best two weeks of my life.
And I felt the same way about Leader. Those were some of the best two weeks of my life. I felt like part of a family. I felt like I was in great hands. I felt like I was, you know, allowed to handle and, you know, work with my dog in the, the compassionate ways [00:31:00] that I was used to training and I was supported in all those areas.
And that's just so important to find a school that. You know, meshes with your morals and is there that you're proud to represent too? You know, I wanted to go to a program where I can leave and say, I am really proud to be part of this family. And when someone comes up and says, oh my gosh. Where did you get that wonderfully trained dog from?
I can say, oh, he's from Leader Dos. That's important to me.
Leslie: Absolutely. I'm so glad that you had a positive experience and that you continued to stay positive during what could be a very, you know, challenging and upsetting situation. So you continuing to have the faith and the organization is greatly appreciated.
But er, we wanna thank you for joining us and sharing all the things that you have been up to and doing and your experience with Leader Dog. Uh, we greatly appreciate it.
Erica: Absolutely. It's been wonderful talking to you For sure.
Leslie: And thank you to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast.
I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hepner. We hope you enjoyed learning [00:32:00] about Erica and her advocacy efforts. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at eight eight eight.
7, 7, 7, 5, 3, 3, 2. And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.