Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hapner with my co host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Cuneo. We are full into fall and we've been traveling still. Leslie's still traveling, but I also
Leslie: traveled. I would like that to be on the record that you were gone for quite some time.
I was gone for quite some time. And I was here holding it down.
Christina: Yes, but you guys didn't record anything without me. . Nobody
Leslie: knows.
Christina: We thought about, you know, we may have done one. You done about. That's true. That's true.
Leslie: And I just didn't know at one point, Timothy, and you were both gone. I thought about just coming in here all by my day,
So yeah, just a whole half hour of me , Hey, this happened to me before .
Christina: Um, yeah, no, I went to a nonprofit innovation and optimization summit earlier. It's a long. It's called Neo for short, um, but it was really cool because, um, I'm in [00:01:00] digital marketing and so it was really cool to learn from other organizations what they're doing and it's all non profit.
So it's everyone in our space and that was really cool. So that was in Texas and so it was really, really hot there, which was nice. But then I went to Germany, so, you know. That's right. Went from one end of the world to the other, but it
Leslie: was great. That's good. And Timothy, where, you have been putting a lot of miles in.
Yeah.
Raul: Uh,
Timothy: I counted it up last night. I've been to 15 airports this year.
Raul: Oh my gosh.
Timothy: And Glacier have done over 20, 000 miles this year. The earth's 24, 000.
Leslie: So, uh. Yeah. And so Timothy, what are some
Christina: like, Tips you'd give people, you know, when traveling with a guide dog, because I mean, 15 airports with you in Glacier, that is a lot and a lot of change.
They're all different. Every airport is. I, we, I always say we get lucky at the Detroit airport because it's like pretty seamless. When I went to Germany, I was. at that airport for forever. [00:02:00] Um, so what are some tips that you give people when, you know, going to different
Timothy: airports? Well, expect the unexpected, like one, one travel time.
An hour flight took 14 hours, which was a disaster and always pack extra food for the dog just in case there's a layover. You might, you know, in the wintertime, there's a chance you the weather. You might have, might as well have a couple extra days of dog food in your bag. And, uh, just be patient. Be patient, because this time of the year, getting around the holidays, it's going to be hectic, of course.
So, um, That's
Leslie: my main one. How do you find, uh, the park areas at the airports?
Raul: I Google it
Timothy: when I go there. I find out where they are before we arrive, so I'll know how far we are from that gate. And then we pray that Glacier
Raul: uses it, right?
Leslie: I know not all the dogs and not all of them are great. I know. I think there was an app at one point too, that you could use airport.
Timothy: It's called where to go, but it's no longer [00:03:00] is
Raul: on. So it's gone. So
Timothy: you just have to Google it. Just Google it. It's
Leslie: easy. Gotcha. Yeah,
Christina: yeah. And that, I mean. Thinking about being in the airport 14 hours by myself, but also having a dog or something, you know, to take care of that's, you know, that extra added responsibility and things that you got to think of, especially when traveling.
traveled, you know, just with your cane instead of your guide dog because you knew something. Um, I'm interested to hear about that.
Timothy: Well, no, I haven't really traveled with just the cane anymore when I'm traveling abroad. Uh, Glacier's there. I'm sorry to say that, Leslie.
Christina: Yeah, I know. Leslie just stuck her tongue out, so that's why I giggled.
Raul: I do. I
Timothy: guess having a dog that takes, I don't want to say takes care of that, but I
Raul: Uh,
Timothy: the dog goes first there's unless the dog is sick or, you know, not wanting to work that day, [00:04:00] which we don't want that either. Mainly it's, it's, it's the dog if I'm
Raul: doing the big travel.
Leslie: Yeah, that makes sense. And you always have your cane if you need it.
Yes,
Raul: I always have my cane right there in the diaper bag ready to go. That's
Leslie: fantastic. That's good. Well I, let's see, where have I been? I have been, I went to the National Industries for the Blind, uh, conference in Arlington, Virginia. Also headed out to the National Council of State Agencies for the Blind conference in Savannah, Georgia.
And then, um, Just recently, like very, very recently at the Florida AER conference in St. Petersburg, I think, Florida. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ready for
Christina: Leslie to be like, there's a conference in Hawaii that I'm going to be going to.
Leslie: Uh, yeah. So, but it's been good and you know, it's hard to travel though, as much as I love it.
And I think what the important thing is, you know, we're really lucky with LeaderDog that they take that very seriously, right? Like [00:05:00] continuing education is really important. It's really important that we stay on top of what's happening in the industry and technology and strategies and things like that.
There's always something to learn. We're never, you know, um, well, we try to be the experts as best we can, but recognizing there's always more that we can. learn from and take advantage of. So I certainly appreciate that about our organization. Um, but we need to jump into it, uh, because we have a fantastic guest here today.
Uh, today's guest is not a LeaderDog client, volunteer, or team member, but works in the field of blindness and low vision and is a part of a partnering organization. Yes, Raul
Christina: is an assistive technology trainer who resides in Houston, Texas. He is the president of the National Association of Guide Dog Users, also known as NAGDU, and is also active with the National Federation of the Blind of Texas.
Timothy: Good morning, Raul. It's great to have you on the podcast this morning. Do you mind telling us a little bit more
Raul: about yourself? Good morning, and first off, thank you for having me on. It is certainly wonderful, and [00:06:00] hopefully I can share some travel tips as well. Um, so, um, I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, and throughout my career, I have lived in Kansas City.
And in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and for the last 10 years, I've lived in Houston, Texas, where I now consider it my home. I've only considered Denver and Houston home, so that kind of says a little bit about Kansas and Indiana. I liked there. I liked it there, but they were the places where I worked. So yes, I am, when I'm not doing volunteer work for the National Federation of the Blind and NAGDU, um, I am, uh, training.
Uh, teaching technology, both my wife and I have a small business, uh, that, uh, we, we own and run and we are consultants and technology, uh, trainers, uh, throughout the majority of it is throughout the Houston [00:07:00] area. Um, but we also venture out to other places. East Texas over toward, uh, Nacogdoches, um, and, uh, over to Beaumont and beyond.
And then kind of a little bit of southwest, uh, toward, um, you know, Corpus Christi, and a little bit further out there toward the valley. And then, um, we also, you know, work with, Uh, folks remotely, so we, we work with people that are out of state or, um, Texas is so big that, um, you know, it's got two time zones.
So, you know, we'll work with people who are in different time zones, whether they're in Texas or not.
Leslie: That's awesome. So you guys are covering, you know, wide area. Quite a bit. So obviously very, very busy with that. And so then you kind of volunteer in these other organizations. Do you mind telling us, you know, what is NAGDO?
Raul: So NAGDU, um, you know, nationalists, I try to stay away from the alphabet soup, um, you know, too much with the acronyms, um, uh, [00:08:00] alphabet soup. So NAGDU, yes. National Association of Guide Dog Users is a division of the National Federation of the Blind, uh, NFB. And, um, so I've, I've been its president, uh, for NAGDU since 2020.
And, um, The division is, um, part of the advocacy efforts that the NFB has, uh, to help, uh, educate and advocate, uh, for the rights of guide dog users, uh, throughout our country, uh, in different areas, uh, whether it's educating the guide dog users themselves, um, how to best advocate for themselves or also with, uh, educating businesses, uh, or agencies on how they, um, you know, should handle or how they should react or treat people who are guide dog handlers.
We also, you know, work in those areas as well. Yeah, I noticed
Timothy: that the NAGDU is really involved in with all that's going on with Uber and Lyft right now, and that's why it's great to have this organization
Raul: around. [00:09:00] That's our huge project. That's the thing that's most in focus right now is the rideshare, all the issues that people are facing with rideshare.
And then also with flying, when you fly with your guide dog. And the Department of Transportation, you know, they have their... Uh, out of station forms that may or may not be required by the airlines. Uh, you have to love that wording because, um, like, like what Tim was saying earlier, be prepared for the unexpected.
You know, you never know if the airline is going to require it or not, so, um, we're, we're trying to, um, Make things better so that they're less stressful, right?
Leslie: And then even with the airlines that do use them, it feels like everybody does the process is slightly different for each airline. So I know we get a lot of phone calls about that.
And of course, we're always happy to fill out that paperwork, but it is one more added step that you've got to do. That is, um, obviously challenging and a little bit frustrating sometimes. So we certainly appreciate all the efforts of NFB and nag. Do, um, you guys are really [00:10:00] big and into advocacy and we're happy to.
to support those in any way that we can to.
Raul: That's wonderful. And, you know, we, we're always looking, um, forward to, you know, having good and positive relationships with all guide dog training programs. Um, especially, you know, for our, our various different state conventions and our various different, um, You know, events that we have throughout the year, but especially, uh, especially our national convention, you know, we have our, you know, we typically will do our annual business meeting and also, um, a seminar.
We usually will also hold a seminar. And so we are always looking forward to having as much participation as possible. Yeah.
Christina: And I know some, a lot of times we hear. You know from our clients that they do have these issues. So do you have any like tips that you would give them on, you know, what should they do if something happens in a ride share or at the airport?
Are there steps they can take? Are there things that they can do?
Raul: I would say probably the first thing to try and keep in mind is [00:11:00] to stay calm and uh, It's calm, cool and collected, right? Because not only will, um, will that help to diffuse any sort of situation that could become tense, but also your dog feeds on your attention and your stress.
And so if, if you're stressed and upset, your dog's going to be stressed and upset. So you want to keep that in mind and, you know, you want to try to have that best, uh, team combination with you and your dog. And so, you know, travel's already stressful as it is. So when you, when you. Have to step out of that zone of just being, you know, uh, Joe citizen traveler and and become a blind person advocacy educator, uh, traveler, you know, that that adds to the stress.
Um, so that would be my my number 1 tip. Um, number 2, do things that are, you know, that might seem redundant, but, you know, if if you have them there, and it's a redundant thing, um, then that's that's great. That means, you know, you, you. Thank you. You expected the worst, [00:12:00] um, hope for the best, but expect the worst.
So for example, um, If an airline has the system in place where you had to upload the attestation form to them or email it to them, have 1 with you anyway, just in case they lost it in their system or anything like that. You can let them know. Hey, I gave this to you. Electronically, um, you know, you may or may not have a little traveler number.
Some airlines will give you a traveler number to show that your form is good for a year, et cetera, but not all of them do that. And so, because it's inconsistent, um, I always recommend, you know, have. A couple of forms that are already printed, um, with you just in case. Um, along with, um, what was already said earlier, have extra food.
Something that I do is, um, you know, or I try to do, especially if it's going to be a longer trip, is if I pack my dog's food underneath and, you know, send it along with my regular suitcase underneath, I'll have some extra food with me in my carry on just in case of unforeseen delays or your, your luggage gets [00:13:00] lost or delayed or anything like that.
In terms of, uh, ride share, stay firm, know your rights. So, for example, if a driver starts to tell you about how, you know, their religion prevents them from taking people with dogs, or, or their, their leather on their seat prevents them from doing so, or, you know, or maybe you should have ordered pet, uh, you know, the pet option, you know, et cetera.
Again, stay, stay cool and collected and just, you know, let them know, hey, you know, You have rights and I have rights. Um, you know, my, my right is that I can travel in a public vehicle with with my dog. Um, you know, your right is, is that you have the right to take me as long as my dog is, is under control.
You know, he's not getting in your, uh, personal space. He's not presenting a danger to your driving. So there's no problem. And, you know, sometimes explaining that, at least in my experience, sometimes The more calm you stay and the more you explain, sometimes it helps to diffuse a [00:14:00] potential denial and, you know, turn into a possible, you know, educating moment, you know, where the drivers maybe didn't know or they weren't aware.
Timothy: Well, me being having the guide dog, I'm a member of NAGDUG, and so why should somebody out there join NAGDUG?
Raul: First and foremost, we, you know, we, we get happy when we have bigger numbers in terms of membership. I mean, what, what organization doesn't? But all that aside, the reason I would, I'll, I'll answer it, I'll answer it that way.
And then, uh, people can apply it to their own, you know, situation. One of the reasons why I am in this organization is... Um, has to do with philosophy. So, um, NAGDU has the philosophy of, um, remaining, uh, impartial. So for example, we believe in informed choice. If a person is interested in. In learning more about their rights and responsibilities as a guide dog handler and is interested in getting a dog and you know, maybe want some advice.
Um, now I do [00:15:00] will give that advice. Um, impartially. So, you know, I have a dog from a certain training school. Someone else has a dog from a different training school. We can give pros and cons about each one. We can give, we can help educate the person on how to make that that decision. Um, that's going to best fit their needs, whether it's geographic needs, whether it's, uh, dog breed, um, preferences, whether it's, um, you know, does the school cover medical expenses?
Does the school offer ownership? There's a lot of questions that a lot of guide dog handlers may not be aware of, may not know that that that can be asked or should be asked. So we help to educate that. Another reason why we become a member is the, um, the family feel the camaraderie of other like minded people, um, who have my back.
So if I want to be treated like a first class citizen, um, As a general rule, other members who are part of the organization [00:16:00] may feel that way as well, and we can have a unified front. We can have that togetherness. Um, if an organization or if, uh, if a business, uh, you know, says, Hey, someone can't come in here with with their dog.
Uh, we're not above getting together a group of guide dog users and going to that business to say, all right, here we are. Uh, we're going to, um, you know, Um, enjoy your the offerings of your business and help educate you in the process. So we try to kill them with kindness in that way before we try to, um, you know, get a little more, uh, firm with our advocacy efforts.
Leslie: I think that is such an important part of. what you guys do and remaining impartial and sharing just knowledge. And you guys have that nice little one stop shop, like you were mentioning about all the guide dog organizations. It's kind of like a table of who has what and, you know, several different topics and kind of talks about what each organization has or does not have.
And I know we get those calls once a year to update our [00:17:00] information, which is fantastic. And I do think, you know, it's such a unique field, uh, the guide dog organization. I kind of feel like people get super protective and are diehard for their school or organization, similar to that of like a sports team.
Um, but at the end of the day, right, we're all out there serving individuals and the hope is that everybody is traveling independently. Um, and getting the services that they need. And I always talk about this, but I find it so fascinating and I love that we really work with other guide dog organizations.
We will refer other, you know, people to another organization if we're not the best fit or they have a, a program that's going to fit their needs a little bit better. And I know other guide dog organizations do the same and refer to us. We certainly, you know, when we go to conferences, we get together, we try to share ideas and things that we're working on because there are just still always going to be people out there that need help and that need these services.
And so it is a really unique field, but there are definitely, I get like, you know, your, your, your team, if you will, [00:18:00] your organization.
Raul: Well, and you know, we, we respect and we realize that the different organizations are going to have different philosophies and different views about blindness in general and about guide dogs specifically.
Um, there are some die, die hard guide dog users who, uh, the only thing they're concerned with is ownership. That's all they want. They just want to be able to own their dog and they feel that all guide dog training programs should offer ownership, um, of, of the dog, no matter what. Um, And, and I take a slightly more lax viewpoint on, you know, yeah, if the school offers it, it would be nice, but I also am cognizant of the fact that maybe if a school does not offer ownership, maybe they offer something else that could help me better, like, you know, they might more able or willing to pay for an emergency vet bill.
Whereas if, if, if I'm the sole owner of that dog, then that vet bill is solely on my responsibility and I may not have the funds or the [00:19:00] capability of paying for something like that. So, you know, we always try to put that out there that there's pros and cons to everything. Um, You know, and ultimately the really the only thing that we ask for from all organizations, whether they're guide dog organizations or not, is respect and treat people with dignity.
Leslie: Absolutely. I think that's fantastic. How did NAG do originally form within the NFB? So
Raul: NAGDU formed in the late eighties. Um, and, you know, as a general rule, when a, when a division, um, is formed with, with an organization, um, despite the name, um, you know, it's, it's about trying to keep people together. So, um, but the division is really more to focus on, uh, you know, certain certain category, uh, you know, subcategory, if you will, of the organization itself.
So, you know, every, everyone in NAGDU, especially on, on the board of directors, um, is blind and, you know, specifically the [00:20:00] president and vice president not only have to be blind, but also have to be guide dog users. Um, and we, we have that written into our NAGDU constitution because we want, um, The leadership of the division to be, uh, to be ran by someone who is a guide dog user.
Um, not just by someone who, you know, no offense to sighted people, but if a sighted person runs an organization, how do we know that they have the blind person or the guide dog user's best interest in mind? Um, especially when it comes to education and advocacy. Um, That is one of the reasons why we are the National Federation of the Blind, not for the blind.
And that's, you know, that's a huge distinction. So, you know, so NAGDU was formed in the, in the late 80s, um, because there were, um, you know, issues that were, uh, you know, very important at the time that were specific to guide dog users. Right around that time was when the Air Carrier Access Act, um, had been, uh, newly formed.
Um, if my history is correct, I want to say that, that's... You know, sometime in the like the [00:21:00] mid 80s. Um, and you know, this was before the ADA, you know, so, um, you know, rights of guide dog users were not recognized quite in the same way as they are now. Um, and so we saw, um, a need for, uh, there to be a specific division.
And then, you know, we've basically carried on since, um, with specific work as it pertains to, uh, guide dog users.
Leslie: That's incredible. And I love all the work that you guys have done. And I think it's just such an important organization and a piece of the NFB. And so you said you've been the president since 2020?
Correct. So how did you get into this role? And then, and what happens after? How long are you in
Raul: this role? So I'm in the role as long as our membership keeps voting for me, um, we, you know, I always tell people, you know, this, it's not a popularity contest. It's, you know, it's not about your friends. So if, if the membership feels that.
you know, that a new leadership is in order, um, you know, [00:22:00] that they should vote for new leadership. You know, it may be someone that, that I, uh, suggest, you know, my, I might, you know, propose to say, Hey, this person is a, is a good one. I'm, I'm yielding. I'm, I may not be running again, et cetera. Uh, that may be something, or maybe somebody runs against me and, and, um, you know, if, if they can do a better job, um, More power to them, right?
You know, so I'm, I'm not in this for a title. Um, it is a lot of work. Um, the way I, the way I joined, um, kind of starts back in the, uh, early nineties when I, when I got my very first guide dog. Um, it was in, uh, late 1992, 93. Um, I, I was still living in Denver. I got my very first guide dog. I was, I was 19 years old then.
Didn't know what I was doing with life in general, let alone with a guide dog. Um, and, and if I had to do it all over again, yes, I still would get a guide dog, but maybe for me personally, I might wait until I was maybe 22 or 23, um, because of my maturity level at the time. Um, but of course you can't, you can't see that [00:23:00] when it's happening.
This is all, you know, in retrospect, um, you know, the benefit of experience, et cetera, that is not to say that. that someone who, who is 16, 17, 18 cannot get a guide dog. Um, but it is something that we point out, you know, Hey, just be sure you're really ready for this. Um, you know, when I was at that age, my career goals and my life goals were changing, you know, every week.
So, um, I got involved with the national federation of the blind of Colorado. And, um, at the time. I wasn't really sure if, if I really was going to like the organization. They, you know, seemed like a whole bunch of angry people and, um, saw them in, in the news, how, you know, they were constantly suing people was, was like the, the thing and, and other friends that I had that were not part of the NFB and like, well, why do you want to be them?
They hate guide dog users. They're, they don't like guide dog users. And I thought, okay, so if that's the case. Why is it that in Colorado there's a stipend where if you're a guide dog user you can get a [00:24:00] stipend to help you with food costs for your dog? And it was a grant that was offered by the NFB of Colorado, and I'm thinking...
If these people hate guide dogs, why do they have a grant to help us guide dog users? So that didn't make sense. Um, you know, so I did a little more investigating and I eventually, you know, got in with the right crowd, I got involved. Um, as a general rule for many years I was... I was a member in various areas, but not in the area of guide dog users.
You know, I was a guide dog user, but just not in the division. Um, I knew about the division, etc. And I would, you know, sometimes attend NAGDU events, etc. And kind of saw them grow, but I was really not interested. I was just a blind person with a guide dog. And, you know, I was more interested in computers. I mean, you know, tech training, like, you know, like I mentioned earlier.
Uh, fast forward to, um, 2015 when I got my current dog. Um, I got my current dog in 2017. Um, I started getting involved a little more just because I was starting to see a, a niche of, [00:25:00] you know, Hey, there's some ideas that I have that I think would be great for the division. You know, let me give some feedback and see what they say.
Um, and, and in the NFB, a lot of leadership basically says, Hey, if you have an idea and you know how to implement it, Here you go. The job is yours. Um, so I, I was voted in as a, as a board of directors member of NAGDU. Um, and then, and then eventually I was, um, voted in as vice president. And then when the former president stepped down, he, uh, suggested, you know, that maybe I might make a good president and the membership, um, agreed, voted me in.
And so here I am since 2020. And, um, so that's been kind of my, my, my big, um, goal isn't right, the right term, but my, my two big projects, uh, with, with the division are, uh, number one, establishing a much more positive rapport and connection with other guide dog training programs. Um, in the past, they have [00:26:00] not been the best.
Um, so that's, that's one. And then two, you know, uh, now it's, you know, with, The ride share and with the, with the traveling part, you know, so we're, those, those are the two big projects that I'm, that I'm
Christina: handling. And that is a lot to take on. It's a lot of work and we thank you for all that work you're doing.
Raul: It's something that I I'm definitely not doing by myself. Um, being president, uh, is one of those things where you, uh, you get blamed if something doesn't work right. Um, but, um, ultimately it's a team effort. I have a great board. Um, you know, we have a lawyer on our board, um, who is, is doing a lot of the, who's doing most of the bulk work when it comes to the, the legal side of, of the ride share stuff and the, and the, uh, Department of Transportation stuff.
Um, you know, so we we definitely have people that that have the right qualifications and the qualifications that we need for our current projects. So
Timothy: somebody wants to join and get involved in, how
Raul: do they do that? Best way is, um, [00:27:00] uh, contact NAGDU. Um, so by becoming a NAGDU member, you know, you are becoming a member of the National Federation of the Blind itself, even if you are not a, a member of a local chapter or affiliate.
So we, we will recognize you as an NFB member. Um, so we have members who are just NAGDU members, and, you know, they may not do anything else with the NFB in general, and then we have, um, members who are, uh, Part of a local chapter or affiliate or whatever, and then also active with ndu. Um, so to do that, um, you can either call or text.
Uh, the ndu phone number is (346) 439-7444. The email address for our board of directors is board@nagdo.org. You can also visit us on the website, nag do.org, and, um, on the, on the. Menu bar, there's a link that says become a member and you can follow the information there. Uh, the cost is [00:28:00] 5 per person per year.
And if you become a member, basically, from now until the end of the year, um, you're recognized for as a member for 2024. so we recognize membership as, uh, from, from January 1 through December 31 with like a open membership season toward the end of each year.
Leslie: That's fantastic. Well, we certainly want to thank you and NAGDU and the NFB for all of the work that you guys are doing.
Honestly, it's fantastic. The advocacy is so important and please keep us involved and let us know how we can help and what we can do because we are all about it as well.
Raul: Definitely. And we're looking forward to, um, you know, to seeing you guys at our, at our national convention. Um, it's going to be in Florida, uh, next year.
So we're looking forward to seeing you guys there and, and having you guys, um, participate with, with our, uh, our events.
Leslie: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Cuneo and Christina Heppner. We hope you enjoyed learning about Raul and the work [00:29:00] NAGDU is doing and the NFB.
Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness. And if you'd like to learn more
Christina: about applying to LeaderDog, you can head to LeaderDog. org or call us at 888 777 5332. And don't forget, you can reach us at TakingTheLead at LeaderDog. org with any questions or ideas. If you liked today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcasts stream.