Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host, Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kyo. We have had a lot happening so far this summer at Leader Dog.
Leslie: Yes, absolutely. We've had camp happen. We've had classes in and out with Guide Dog o and m.
Also, we have had teen o and m already twice this summer. Yeah,
Christina: that is great. Leslie, can you tell us a little more about what teen o and m is? Yes,
Leslie: teen o and M is pretty exciting. It's one of our newest programs. We've only been doing it for a couple of years now. Teen o and m is when we actually bring in teens.
Anybody kind of like high school age. So ideally they've completed maybe freshman year of high school, but going back to high school in the fall, ideally there's wiggle room there, but they come and they actually come with an adult supporter. So this is different than any of our other programs where people would come individually or independently.
This [00:01:00] program, the teen actually brings an adult supporter. So usually, um, a parent or a close family member and they stay at a local hotel. So they're not staying on campus, they're staying in a local hotel. And then the teen has one-on-one o and m throughout the week. So one-on-one keen skills working with an OM specialist.
And then that adult supporter has kind of like a learning track of their own too. So it's an opportunity for them to put on a blindfold or vision simulators and learn a little bit of basic cane technique. It's an opportunity to observe their teen and see what they're doing and how they're traveling.
You know, what can they do to help when they're out practicing or when should they, you know, really back off and kinda let them do it independently. Yeah, so it's been really fun. We've had a lot of success and a lot of positive feedback from it.
Timothy: That is such a cool new program. We got, it was a what, a pilot last year and when I go out and talk to the Lions, I tell 'em about this new program and they're really excited 'cause they see the leader dogs expanding and they'll, you know, everybody knows that the Lion's a vest into Leader Dog and they're excited about this new [00:02:00] program.
Their ears really perk up when I talk to 'em about this new team thing going on.
Christina: That's great. 'cause the Lions Club Organization, it's an international organization that three members founded Leader Dogs for the Blind. So they really do a lot of support for people who don't know, it's not actual Lions that Timothy is talking about.
It is a great organization, service organization that really supports us.
Leslie: Yeah, and the cool thing about the teen o and m too is that Leader Dog still covers all of the costs. So Leader Dog is paying for flights or transportation for both the teen and adult supporter. Leader dog is covering the hotel expenses, meals, everything like that, helping with transportation to and from our campus and the hotel.
So it's just a fantastic, another free program, but. What we were finding really is that parents, a lot of times, or doctors or teachers are always like, get a guide dog. A guide dog's gonna fix everything. You know, my kid needs a dog. And we know that's just not the case, right? It has to be that teen or that adult's decision, whoever's getting the dog, 'cause they're gonna be the one responsible for it.
So it was overall just an opportunity for us to [00:03:00] educate not only teens, but their, their number one supporters, their their support network in their life. It's been really successful. It's super fun. So we still have another week coming up in August where we'll get to meet some more teens and adult supporters and I'm sure carry on for years.
It's a great program.
Christina: Yeah. So if people want to find out more information about this as well, you can head to leader dog.org and under our client programs we have a teen orientation mobility tab, so you can find out information if you wanna sign up for the next round next year. Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to it.
Leslie: But we are getting started today. We're gonna jump right in it. Today's guests have a very unique story that we are excited to share.
Christina: Yes. Carl Dalkey was a client at Leader Dog in February of 1991 and was matched with Leader Dog Remington. Now, fast forward 28 years later, and his daughter, Beth Dalkey, started at Leader Dog as a team member.
Timothy: Hi, Beth and Carl, welcome to the podcast. It's great that you're both here. Let's start off. Can you [00:04:00] guys tell us a little bit more about yourself? Let's start with Carl. Chronological order. There you go.
Carl: Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. So I was born actually with glaucoma. You think of glaucoma as an elderly, you know, eye condition.
And it usually is, almost always is very rarely, but it can happen in in a newborn. And so I had very, very limited division and pretty much had lost all of it by age 10. But because we knew where I was headed. There was no question. I actually got some, some cane training as early as seven, eight years old, and you know, how unusual is that?
But I'm glad I did. Mr. Dard came to our elementary school and oh, he was a good guy, Dick Dard, and he would take me around. Now I say I didn't like it, you know, at the time I was like, oh, do I have to brush my teeth? You know, I mean, it's that kind of thing, but I needed it. I desperately needed it. And so. I got a lot of training through, [00:05:00] uh, through a primary school, secretary school, and, uh, then absolutely had to have it.
'cause I went out to Michigan State and if you've ever seen their campus Yeah. It's crazy. It is huge. I mean, my first class was a mile away. Yeah. Right. At eight o'clock in the morning and I get up and get my cane going and, uh, learn that whole, not the whole campus, but the parts that I had to learn. And I learned them and was usually able to do it as long as there weren't horrible snow drifts or other, you know, unforeseen conditions.
Uh, bikes would run across cars. Oh yeah, cars. I mean, there's the usual allotment, but a lot of, of cane work there. And, uh, then I went to Illinois. You wonder, you was talking about Chicago. You went Chicago. Yeah, so I went out to Illinois, uh, I worked for Bell Labs again, still with a cane. Okay. And, uh, that.
You know, it wasn't [00:06:00] enough. I felt like I needed another degree, so I went out to uh,
Beth: wow. The
Carl: University of California Berkeley, which is an absolute top school. You know, only good things to say about that. Another campus, all right, here we go again. That's not quite as big as Michigan State, but it's big enough.
Yeah, yeah, right. And so out with my cane again, and cars and bikes, and where's my next class and where is my next class? And it all went well. And you'd think with all that cane training that I'd be set, you know? But then I got a job in the middle of Chicago, rush Medical Center, the hospital, you, you may know that.
And I'm picturing these six lane highways and LS and buses and commuter trains and union station. And I said, I can't do that. Not without a dog. And you know, for as much experience and training as I had with a cane. I, I just didn't think it was safe. I didn't think I could do it without a dog. [00:07:00] And that's when I contacted Leader Dog here in 1991 and got, uh, my Remington dog.
And then we spun around and flew out to Chicago right away. And, uh, she was, you know, part of my life for, for the next. Six, eight years, whatever it was, that phase in my life. Just wonderful dog.
Leslie: Wonderful dog. So after all that cane travel and ended, I mean like what environment couldn't you accomplish? No.
Or like conquer that point. I feel like that's crazy, but what, why Leader dog. Yeah. At that point,
Carl: well, you know, it's. Do you mean why the dog or why this school specifically? A little bit of both. Alright. Well, A, as I say, I, I, I did a kind of analysis and it was a step up from anything I'd ever done before.
Some of those streets, you've seen them have, you've been to Chicago, they're sickest lanes and they're racing. Yes, for sure. And some of them aren't even. Perpendicular to your path. They are not. And when they go on an angle, it is easy. So easy to, I don't care how [00:08:00] much training you have, it is so easy to get lost.
And, and it's, it's dangerous. I'm not, and I, not just convenience or whatever. It could be dangerous. Yeah. And, and there's also the fact I'm doing this every day. I want to enjoy it. I wanna relax. Yeah. I want it to be pleasant. And you know, Remington now on the nice days, we'd even skip the bus part of the trip and walk it.
You know, which was an extra mile, but I didn't mind. It was so much fun. I would never have done that with a cane.
Leslie: Well, you're killing me slowly over here, Carl.
Carl: Leslie
Christina: almost choked on her water over here.
Beth: Leslie, as a calm, just, yeah.
Carl: But with the dog, it was so easy and it was so fun. And it's good for her too.
And keep her in shape, you know? Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's fantastic. We're doing, we're doing a good walk today. rem. Get get ready. We're not doing the bus part. We we're doing the walk and it is true. Why a leader dog? Well, of course I grew up around here, so it was the school I knew. Mm-Hmm. Um, and, and maybe that's, you know, most [00:09:00] of it, but I was comfortable with it.
I was familiar with it and um, so there we are.
Christina: Yeah. So Beth, now you are here working at Leader Dog. Tell us a little bit about that journey. You know, your dad had quite a journey with Leader Dog in Remington, right? So how did that impact you in your career right now?
Beth: Right. So I grew up with Remington.
Mm-Hmm. So Remington was already a part of the family before I was even born. 'cause I was born in 93. Okay. So I just had this perfect little behaved black lab that I would just crawl on and sleep on all the time. And I'm like, yeah, this is normal. Doesn't everyone's dad have a guide dog that takes them everywhere And this perfect little pet at home.
And then after Chicago, we moved back to Troy and I grew up in Troy. So we were right down the street all the time. So. It was something I always knew about. I'm like, yeah, doesn't everybody know about Leader Dog? And I had to like, you know, educate friends at school and I'm like, do you not know about black dogs?
What do you mean? And then, you know, I just, I went off to school at CMU and [00:10:00] then I came back and did a little more school at OCC. And I was just a part-time bartender. Not really sure what I eventually wanted to do. 'cause I knew I physically couldn't bartend forever or mentally. Yeah, that's fair. And I saw a part-time position just for dog care open up.
And I was like, oh, I could, I could do that on a side, I can do two little part-time jobs. Um, so I got the job at Leader Dog, just working in the vet clinic 20 hours a week. Um, and then just being back there, I was very happy. I was like, oh, I know, I know Leader Dog. This feels like home. Mm-Hmm. This is so nice.
And then after meeting other departments, seeing the G DMIs, realizing that, oh, I do qualify for this job. I could apply for this job. Like this is, I could do this. Yeah. And then I was, I think it was 2021, I got the GDMI apprenticeship. And I said goodbye to bartending and I was like, this is the dream job.
I, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. And [00:11:00] now I'm nearing the end of my apprenticeship. I'm almost done. Which is
Leslie: so crazy. So Carl, how did you feel finding out right, that Beth was just gonna be working at Leader Dog, but then to go that next step and to become a Guide Dog Mobility instructor, what did that mean to you?
Carl: It, it, it's a, well, first it's unique. Yeah. Which is why we're doing the podcast. You've been doing this 80 years in business. I, I'm sure this has never happened before, but, you know, setting that aside, that it, you just have to be so proud that, uh, she's doing this. And how many, you know, how many people is she gonna help across the, her career have, uh, an independent life or a better life?
Uh, just the way Remy helped me.
Leslie: What knowledge going into it for you, Beth, to have like seen it, grown up with it, right? Mm-Hmm. Like, you know what guide dogs are capable of. That's so inspiring to know the impact it had on your dad's life. I mean, traveling in that crazy Chicago environment and then back in Troy, but also just you as a family member getting to be a part of Remington's life.
So [00:12:00] now on the other side of things, getting to issue dogs to people and knowing all of this, what's that been like?
Beth: It's been wild. 'cause I mean, I've only, I grew up with one client. Mm-Hmm. And now seeing like the full array Sure. Of clients and dogs and the different types of vision loss and what comes with that.
Because I've always had, you know, a total at home where I've just been like, you know, don't leave chairs in the middle of the hallway. Right. And so that's at least, at least an easy thing to. No, is the human part of it. And coming in knowing Human Guide, that was really, I felt really, I was like, I already know human guide.
I know how to do this. But yeah, seeing all the clients and their stories and how they're all, they're all different, but at the end, they're kind of, they all have the same goal and the same, you know, choice in their life that they're like, yeah, this is what I want to do. And it makes me, it makes me so happy seeing clients go home.
That's my favorite part is class. Yeah. And seeing clients go home with their new dogs is the best part.
Timothy: So Beth, what was it like [00:13:00] coming to Leader Dog and working with the instructor who trained your father uses Cane?
Beth: I did. I had, uh, I worked with Randy for a little bit and Randy is a character. Oh, he is.
And he, he wasn't there for too long. He, uh, he was there for maybe a year before he retired. Um, so he worked together for a little bit. I do still work with, uh, Sue Horn, his wife. Who's, uh, still an instructor. So she always has all the Randy stories for me. Um, but I, I asked Randy, when I first started in the program, I was like, do you, do you happen to remember this client from 30 years ago?
You know, by chance? And I think I described. My dad, and then I described Remington, and of course he's like, oh yeah, I remember that dog. And I was like, yeah. And at first I was like, come on. But now thinking about it, I will absolutely remember the dog more often than the client sometimes. And then you link it back together.
Um. But he very much remembered finding this dog. I'm like, yeah, you needed a dog to immediately turn around and go to Chicago, which [00:14:00] nowadays as A-G-D-M-I is like the biggest, no-no. And I'm like, how did Randy find you a dog that can just completely transition again to a giant city? I. But Remington was the one special dog to do it, which is, gosh, if I find another Remington, ooh, I'd be so excited.
Yeah, because Remington was a special dog. Yeah. Yeah.
Christina: That is awesome to hear. Carl, I don't know if Beth told you, but we found your file.
Carl: I heard that. I mean, you know your permanent file basement. We found it. Yeah. It makes me a little nervous.
Christina: It was. Crazy to see how different things were done. Mm-Hmm. So Beth, you know, kind of reading through it and then seeing how you guys train the dogs now and.
Process now. What was that like for you to kind of go back into our history?
Beth: Right. Well, it really helped that my, uh, dad is a nerd and brought his entire computer with him to class in 1991, which was unheard of at the time. So he journaled every day of class. Oh my gosh. Which, of course, a [00:15:00] couple clients do that nowadays, but technology, it's much easier to do.
Mm-Hmm. But of course, in the file, he emailed it to Leader Dog and said, Hey, here's my entire journal of class. Um, but seeing it then, you know, it was a four week program, then we had. You know, 26 plus clients, instructors were one to a six ratio. Wow. Which they still talk about now. And that hurts my brain.
Yeah. To think about like, you have to like speed through every client. And you, you said you only got like maybe 15 minutes a day and then you just sat
Carl: Yeah.
Beth: And you hung out and made sure to bring something with you. I brush day something to read. Yeah. Yeah. And so seeing that, and I do like how it's changed now to like a one to three or one to four ratio when your clients get a little more, one-on-one and a little more training and a little more personal attention.
Mm-Hmm. Which is so helpful, especially when they're working on specific things that they want to do at home. And then seeing how my dad had a roommate in the residence. Oh my gosh. 'cause he was in the farmhouse. And him and his roommate swapped their, well, no, your roommate swapped your dog at one point, right?
Carl: They took my dog. He [00:16:00] thought it was his. Yeah, he didn't grab my dog. I said, excuse me, that's my dog. Yeah, no, I think it,
Beth: yeah. The instructors were like, that is Carl's dog. That is not your dog. But you know, now residents have their own room and they have their own time to. Bond with their dog. Yeah. And be with their dog.
And I feel like that's hard with a roommate. Yeah. That you have to like kind of just be in your corner while your roommate is with their dog bonding separately. Yeah. And the
Leslie: dog's together,
Beth: I would feel like hard. Yeah. Because you definitely broke the rules and let them play. Yeah. I was gonna say, there's
Christina: records of it.
Oh yeah. I know. I was gonna say, it sounds like a dog party, you know? Yeah. To all these dogs.
Carl: Hard. It was hard to stop them from playing course because they were looking at each other the whole time.
Beth: Of course, they're gonna play and they probably were in the same string. So they knew each other. They knew each
Carl: other.
Absolutely.
Beth: Because even our dogs now, we have to tell 'em, we're like, yeah, they were sweet buddies. Like they're gonna, yeah. Look at each other and wanna play, and you know, we have to try to stop that
Carl: from happening. They just pick up a sock, you know, and just go at it. That's my sock. Come on.
Leslie: Oh God. That would be so challenging.
[00:17:00] Timothy. Can you imagine coming and getting glacier and having a roommate? And so like two dogs and another human person who you don't know to get along with. With Yeah. Yeah. For three weeks. I
Timothy: am glad I was not there because I liked, I mean, that's wild. My privacy. Yeah, it's wild. It's wrong. Isn't living with somebody you don't know for three weeks
Carl: now and we got along great, but we didn't have to, you know, it didn't have to play out that way.
Yeah. But we did.
Christina: Yeah. It kind of sounds like summer camp. You're bunked with other people freshman year. Yeah. College wasn't
Beth: last week. In your journal you were saying you were pranking everybody.
Carl: Oh, we were doing some prank. Lemme tell you,
Beth: you dump somebody in a dog food bucket. Like I would be mortified as an instructor.
Like who? Why would you do this? 'cause it was funny. Oh my God. That's why. Because it was funny. What a different time. I know. I love it. I have to talk to Randy. I'm like, why'd you let everybody get away with this stuff?
Carl: Randy? Yeah. He just hid his room. He didn't, I don't, I don't know what's going on out there.
Christina: It sounds like it was one big [00:18:00] party. It
Carl: was. It
Timothy: was a lot of fun. So, Carl, why only one dog? Why haven't you been met to get another dog? Yeah,
Carl: I, because I turned into a telecommuter. Uh, and I was working from home and, and I couldn't quite justify the incredible expense. I mean, obviously it's not my expense, but it's somebody's, it is such a valuable asset, and it just seemed like it would be underutilized for me to just sit in my office, in my house all day.
And yeah, we could walk around the neighborhood. I mean, we could do some things, but, uh, I just, I didn't, I couldn't justify it. I didn't think we needed it.
Leslie: That is so smart. You know what that is the way to think about it, if you don't have the work for the dog, it's not gonna be a good fit for anybody. The dog's gonna be bored.
It's not fair to the dog either, really. For sure. They're
Carl: trained to do something and they're not doing it. So I didn't wanna do that.
Christina: I think that's wise, very wise. Yeah. And we recently had, Judy, my and client service is on to talk about kind of [00:19:00] the application and the things to think about when getting a dog.
So that's another good thing to think about,
Leslie: right, is where you're working. Absolutely. Absolutely. So now, okay, so Beth, we talked about the file. You got to go through that. Have you gone over it with your dad? So you like to just reminisce? I did it immediately that day
Beth: after I showed you guys, I was like, dad, why did you write all of this out?
But he, he really did like every single day of training, which is fairly similar to what we still do. I know it was a lot more. Um, they would do a lot more double routes back then because they had so many right. Clients per instructor. So they're like, yep, go, just send it. You're gone. But they would still, you know, start on the practice course and then you would make your way downtown.
And then you would start doing, you know, the bigger, like you, you, you came to Birmingham, I think you wrote in your
Carl: major journal. Well, I did some things that some of the other clients and dogs didn't do. Oh yeah. 'cause you had to go to Chicago 'cause they knew I had to do escalators and some dogs [00:20:00] can't handle escalators.
Right, right. And I had to do revolving doors. Some dogs can't do. So there were some times when I was out and maybe some of the other class wasn't there. Right,
Beth: which is, yeah, it's just what we do now, like that, that last week of training very much unique branches out to each client's specific needs. So yeah, a lot of the journal is very, is very similar.
Like it's very similar to what we still, I. Do now. There's just some tweaks that we've made throughout the years. Yeah. But then it was also, you know, dad's having, uh, every Sunday my mom would come visit 'cause they're local. Mm-Hmm. So she would come hang out, which not many clients get that opportunity to have their wife come visit.
Right. And of course they were newlyweds, so they missed each other. And I'm like, okay dad, we can leave this out of the journal that we sent.
Carl: We better leave it out of the podcast.
Christina: We'll leave that to the imagination. Leave that out there. Yeah, that is, just leave
Carl: it out there. Remember, that's
Christina: too funny. I did though, when you showed me the file, the [00:21:00] logo and stuff from back then, the paperwork so different, the old contract, but everything was in such good shape. It looked like it was like brand new paper.
Like it. Hadn't been sitting in, you know, a file for, they probably hadn't been touched for three years sitting in the basement. Yeah. And that's
Leslie: crazy though. Like it didn't take you long to find it. Like their filing system is incredible, right? Yeah. Like she walked right down and was like, oh, it's gonna be in this, you know, spot.
Yeah. She was right here. Last name, which is, that's where it is. And I was like, oh. I thought this would be a lot harder to find. Yeah, I think that's crazy. I mean, I just think about my own organizational system, which is not much. So to be able to do that from a client
Beth: from years ago, right. And I was worried we weren't gonna find anything.
Yeah. But it still had his picture of Remington from the day they were issued and had the contract. And it still had like, you know, emails printed out like anything they had sent and. When he had to retire, Remington, like that email was in there. Yeah. That email about, uh, me being a newborn in Naperville and me just taking food right out of her bowl.
Yeah. And her just being unbothered by it. And he was so [00:22:00] impressed that she was a very good dog and didn't care that a infant just took food out of her bowl and we're like, oh, yep. That email's like everything was recorded in that file. Which is very cool.
Leslie: That is so cool. I feel like it needs to be like in a leader dog museum type of thing.
Yeah. And then like the follow through, like the inside of it, of Beth, you coming here and now working and being a guide dog mobility instructor and you're the little baby that was reaching into the bowl. Yeah. That's so cute.
Christina: So Leslie will be starting a leader dog museum. Yeah, I know.
Beth: They're gonna, they have to
Christina: start it.
Leslie: I think that's so cool. So Carl though, have you been back to campus at all since uh, Beth has been there? She took me back. Yeah, she took me back once
Carl: because like it's new. I mean, for me, yeah. A lot of it's new and you know, the individual rooms and she let me, uh, take a dog out for a spin. Yeah. You know, so to speak.
So, uh, and, and uh, around the little practice track, it's funny, I got in the harness and it's just like home. I mean, it's so natural. Just follow the dog and in like 33 years, [00:23:00] whatever, you just pick it right up, you know? I can do it. Yeah. I definitely
Beth: unclipped. I was like, they're fine. They can send it, they're fine.
Leslie: But like how cool, what a unique situation that unless you know somebody or you know, have that experience, like you would never be able to do that. Mm-Hmm. That's awesome. And I'm sure you're happy to hear that nobody is sharing rooms anymore. Upgrades here and there.
Carl: But I tell you, I almost wanna take that dog home.
He was a beautiful dog, right? Yeah. Sunny.
Christina: Yeah.
Carl: Well,
Christina: the
Beth: door's always open. Yeah.
Timothy: You can make it happen.
Beth: Yeah. Just ditch mom. You can go on walks better. Yeah.
Leslie: That is awesome. Well, thank you both for being here today. Like this is such a fantastic story. It feels like a very much so full circle. And Beth, we can't wait to see all the amazing things that you accomplish as a guide dog mobility instructor, and all the lives that you are going to impact. So, uh, thank you both for being here.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. [00:24:00] I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hepner. We hope you enjoyed hearing about Carl and Best Leader Dog story. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org. Or call us at (888) 777-5332. Don't forget you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever Podcast Stream.