Christina: Welcome to the taking the lead podcast, where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Cuneio. So how hi, everybody's, weekend's been, it is a Monday when we're recording today. So what's going on?
Leslie: It's been good. I had a great weekend. I was lucky enough to go to the, uh, volunteer engagement event that we had on campus this last weekend.
Yeah. Oh, nice. It was so fun. There were like hundreds of volunteers and people were driving for quite the distance. I talked to somebody who drove over four hours. To get there. Wow. Was so much fun, but you guys, we've got a lot of compliments on the podcast. That's awesome. Our volunteers
Christina: are so dedicated.
Leslie: It's great. It's insane. I learned so much and about so many different roles. I had no idea, half the things that people are out there doing, but it was really cool. And I got to talk to, uh, Timothy, the driver that you had Mike, when he, uh, drove you just this last time, he was so excited that he had got a shout out.
So I'm giving him another one here. um, but yeah, it was really [00:01:00] great. We got a lot of nice compliments, so it was good to. That
Christina: is awesome. And I wish I could have been there, but I could not. What
Leslie: were you doing, Christina? Why couldn't be there? , I'm flying
Christina: out for a nonprofit summit this week. So I had a lot
Sarah: of
Christina: packing and all that.
And then my parents had an event at their house, so I had to go to that.
Leslie: all right. That sounds almost excusable. I'm just kidding. No, you have a lot going on. You have a lot going on. Timothy. What were you up to?
Timothy: Well, this weekend was my grandbaby's first birthday. So we went down there and spent, uh, about four or five hours there.
Had a good time, saw that baby put her face in the cake and everything. So it
Christina: was wild. That's always the fun part. Cake
Leslie: in the face. Yeah. I love watching babies on the first. Yeah, it was it's so cute. Half the time. They don't really get into it. They're not sure. And then other times they just really go for it.
Yeah. They're discovering it. And then once they decide it's good.
Timothy: Yeah. The mother opens up all the presents for the baby and everything. So I I'm looking forward to when they turn three or [00:02:00] four, when they get to tear into it and stuff
Kate: like that. So
Christina: yeah, that is so
Leslie: exciting. Then they're just so excited to open gifts.
I love they'll get like underwear and they're like, oh my gosh, mom, did you see what I got? Cause they're just so excited. But then I'm told you get to like a next age when they're like six or seven and they're like, but I already have this. Oh yeah. Or I didn't want this. I didn't ask for it. You. Smile.
Timothy: right. Yeah. I got nothing that matches this shirt. Oh my gosh. It's gonna, so that's when they
Christina: get older. Yeah. Leslie, I can't wait till your kids are
Leslie: teenagers. I feel like they already are honestly at three and five, the SAS that I get from both of them or the, I don't want, like, their life is so hard.
Christina: Yeah.
I love hearing stories about your daughter. She's
Leslie: she's questionable at best, but she is really, really cute. And, uh, I, I don't worry about her so much in the world. I do worry about others. Yeah. For her, or, you know, that interact with her, but I don't worry. , she'll be just fine in [00:03:00] life. She'll be just fine in life.
But anyways, thank you everybody for being here, we are super excited to get today's, uh, episode going because today we have two very special guests in studio with us to share about not only their personal.
Yes, we
Christina: have Kate Roberts and Sarah Dyke. And Kate Roberts has been with leader dogs for the blind for 10 years. She's from Iowa originally and moved out to Michigan 10 years ago when she received the guide dog mobility apprenticeship position. Kate is now a guide dog mobility instructor, and the supervisor of the deaf blind team.
She has a master's degree in rehabilitation and mental health counseling from the university of Iowa. Throughout her college education. Kate worked at a dog daycare and boarding facility, and she was seeking a way to combine her passions for working with canines in humans and working for leader. Dog has allowed her to explore both of these passions and when not working, Kate likes to cook, do CrossFit and puppy raise.
And she's about to receive [00:04:00] her fourth puppy to raise, which is super ex exciting. And Sarah Dyke is a guy, dog mobility instructor on the deaf blind team at leader dogs for the. And she has been involved with leader dogs since high school. She's raved five future leader dogs with her family and has worked at leader dog in the role of GDM.
I, since 2013, she also hosts ambassador dog Vader. And that Sarah has a bachelor's degree in sign language studies from Madonna university. And is a certified American sign language interpreted her. So that's a lot and she recently completed. So on top of that, she's also completed her degree in orientation and mobility from the university of Kentucky.
And she had an internship at the Helen Keller national center for deaf blind youths and adults. And just this morning, we learned that Sarah has officially received her certification. So she is now a certified orientation and mobility specialist. And that is a lot of accomplishments for [00:05:00] both of you. I could barely get through all of that.
Timothy: man. It may
Christina: be tired. I'm like, man, what am
Sarah: I doing with my life over here? .
Timothy: Welcome to the podcast, ladies. And I'm telling you this, this what you guys do has always intrigued me. So Kate, tell me what your team does for leader dog.
Kate: Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having us here. So on the deaf blind team, we work with individuals generally who are deaf and blind and needs some more potentially individualized instructions.
So we work with individuals, um, at a ratio of two to one instead of three to one, which is a typical capacity of an instructor. Just as vision loss occurs on a spectrum. So it is hearing loss. So we work with our clients to figure out what the best way is to communicate with them, to give them the instruction that they need to be successful
Leslie: with their guide dog.
What you guys do is absolutely incredible. Like Timothy said, it is so interesting to observe and to watch, because I think the dedication on both [00:06:00] sides, your guys' ends as being the instructors. And then also the client's side of it, you know, everybody has to be all in and really work hard at it. So it's absolutely cool.
But Sarah, do you mind telling us a little bit about how you became a certified American sign language? Interpret.
Sarah: Yes. So I originally, what I wanted to be when I grew up was an interpreter. So that's why I went and got my undergrad. I was gonna be an ASL interpreter and I got all the way through my undergrad.
And I was working on getting my certification in the state of Michigan. And then I had a meeting basically with one of my advisors and he brought up the good fact that people who are deaf also need professionals in the field who can sign. So it was just a really nice way to combine both my passions. I was always a dog nerd as a kid and I love working with people.
So I love this job and I feel lucky to have it. Yeah.
Christina: And I think Sarah is when people think sign language, but then they think of someone who's blind. Can you talk about what type of sign [00:07:00] language you use? Cause I think it's so interesting.
Sarah: Yeah. So it definitely exists on a, on a continuum. So. Like Kate had mentioned there.
People tend to the majority of clients that I work with at leader dog have usher syndrome. And with usher syndrome, you kind of lose your vision gradually as you age. And so at the beginning of vision loss, somebody might access sign language in a very typical way. So you might not have to make any accommodations, but then as their field of vision narrows, I might bring my hands closer to my face, keep my signing.
More narrow. I might move further away from that person so that I can be within their field of vision. And then as their vision continues to narrow, I would move to something called tracking where somebody keeps their hands on my wrists and keeps me within their field of vision. And then fully tactile is when somebody has no vision that they can use to receive sign language.
So then their hand, my hands are in their hands. When I. So it's still American sign language. There's just a [00:08:00] little bit of a way that it's different because with ASL, all the grammar that you use is on your face. So then you put that on your hands
Kate: protect. Wow.
Timothy: That's the biggest thing that just fascinates me.
How you communicate with somebody who is blind and deaf. So what are some of the biggest challenges that you have dealing with a client that has those two things that's
Sarah: against? There really is no one blanket answer for that. Um, people who are deaf blind, you know, they exist very much on a continuum like we've been talking about, and there's no one answer fits all.
Everybody kind of figures out what works best for them at any point in their life. And that is one of the biggest challenges that we face is making sure that we're providing services in a way that fits the individual. So we do a lot of in person, uh, meetings rather than relying on videos so that we can actually get to know the individual and their communication preferences and needs.
Um, and then that might change on the situation. So for example, somebody who can see [00:09:00] some in the day might be totally night lined. So very much dependent.
Leslie: So Kate, how many people do you have on your team? Because this is such a specialized skill and you guys are working with such unique individuals. And like Sarah was saying, each training session is so different, right?
It's one on one instruction, really in the sense that you have to make your instructional plan specific to that person's needs and then how they communicate. So how many people do you have on your team, but how many people do you guys serve a year? Yeah,
Sarah: you hit a
Kate: spot on. Everything has to be very specialized on our team.
We have myself and then two guide dog mobility instructors, Sarah and Emily Sharp. And then we also just hired a new apprentice named Mara Turner. So we're very excited to have her on board. So total right now there's four of us. Um, and Sarah and Mara are our ASL users on the team. So. .
Leslie: So, is there any other unique, like training that goes into working with the guide dogs?
Like, is anything different for the dogs that you guys train or. Really,
Kate: we try to individualize the [00:10:00] training as much as possible to the client's needs. Um, generally when we're working with someone who can't use their voice about halfway through training, we'll remove our voice, um, from working with the dog.
So we'll just be using bodily cues, hand signals, um, to get the dog to respond to us. But generally dogs really respond to our body language anyways. So it's a pretty easy transition for the dogs to, just to, to, um, just use, uh, hand signals and body cue.
Sarah: One big thing too, that often comes along with usher syndrome is balance concerns.
So we make sure we really work on that with the dogs too, so that they can withstand somebody who might be a little off balance. We tend to like the bigger dogs for that as well. So not exclusively, but we do like our tall dog. We do. I think that's so
Christina: interesting that you actually take away your voice halfway through and don't talk to the.
I would love to see that. I think that would be so cool. but you know, you do that. And then I guess how many clients, cuz you [00:11:00] guys only go in the class so often, how many clients do you typically like bring in when do you know to bring those clients in?
Kate: Yeah, so it works a little bit differently on our team.
Generally we know a little bit farther ahead of time who the clients we're going to be working with our. Um, and so that gives us a, a little advantage because for matching purposes and things like that. So you generally, we know probably three or four months at least ahead of time who we're gonna be serving in the next class.
And we try to serve at least 20, uh, at least 12
Leslie: clients per year. and how many of those are deliveries? Because again, that's a whole nother unique situation. I probably don't have a number specifically. Yeah. But that's something you guys really take into consideration is whether it's going to be best for the client to be on campus, or if it's best for them to be in home to receive that
Kate: training.
Definitely. And that really depends on the client. So it can be two deliveries all the way up to maybe four or five each year, depending on the client's needs that.
Sarah: And that also changed a lot during the pandemic. It was very difficult for people to travel at that point, especially [00:12:00] clients who rely on lip reading, um, with the masks and everything.
So we did a lot more home trainings at that point. So what's the
Kate: typical
Timothy: timeframe. How long does it usually take you to train somebody? Who's deaf bond.
Sarah: So we actually have a pretty similar training, um, process for the clients. The dogs are actually in training, usually for a little longer. We can go anywhere from four to six months in training for our dogs.
Um, and then when we do serve clients in class, we do the typical three weeks on campus in Michigan, and then almost. Entirely. If we're working with a new client, we go home with them and provide additional support. Uh, one of my goals though, definitely moving forward for the program is I would love to be able to offer more.
Uh, support in the home at, uh, intervals after they go home. So like at six months being able to go out and even if there are no problems offer some training, I think that'd be great. Mm-hmm yeah. And
Christina: Sarah, so you just got certified in orientation mobility. So how do you see this helping in your role at leader
Sarah: [00:13:00] dog?
Yeah, so I, well, I am also kind of, I love learning. So for me, I just enjoyed being able to increase my skills in that way, but the majority of the work that we do. Leader dog is with the dogs and we get so few opportunities, you know, throughout the year to work with clients. So I wanted to make sure that we were really offering the best services that we could to our clients.
And there's just not that many services available for people who are sign language users, to be able to work one on one with, um, somebody who also signs. Where leader dog is one of the only organizations across the country that actually can offer direct instruction in American sign language, rather than through the use of interpreters.
Many schools often don't even think that people who are deaf blind can safely work with a guide dog. So that's really something that sets apart leader dog from the other organization.
Leslie: October is blindness awareness month. And did you know, only 10% of people who are blind or visually impaired travel [00:14:00] independently with a guide dog or white cane.
That means that 90% of people require assistance or don't leave their home. That
Christina: is a staggering statistic at leader dogs for the blind. We focus on mobility skills, such as waking training. And guide dog training to empower people to travel independently. This training is offered completely free to clients in the us and Canada, including room, board, and airfare, to learn more head to leader, dog.org.
Leslie: You guys take so much into consideration, like things that I had never thought of before. Kind of joining leader, dog and learning a little bit more about your program. Specif. You guys usually wear a dark colored clothing so that your hands are a little bit more visible. If somebody is using, um, their site to, to use ASL, you also have much smaller class sizes to take into consideration.
So there's not as much background noise and things like that. Is there anything else that makes your program unique or a little different, or I guess considerations that maybe most people wouldn't think.
Kate: One thing we really have to think [00:15:00] about is weather and how that impacts communicating. So, you know, it gets so cold and snowy here in Michigan.
Uh, having gloves on while using sign language can be very difficult, especially when it's tactile sign language. So, um, oftentimes we do have a class in Florida that we offer, so we get to get out of the cold weather and get into the sunshine. So that's, that's definitely one thing that we have to take into account
Leslie: on the team.
That's huge. I really had not thought about that, but you're right. It's already probably really challenging to kind of hold onto somebody else's hands and interpret everything that's happening. But then you add another layer of, you know, cotton or whatever gloves are made of these days. next weather slippery.
What about seeing of weather though? Like rain too, right? Like rain is so loud sometimes when you're traveling and we talk about that all the time in on, and M it's can be really useful. It can be really distracting. Is that something that comes
Sarah: into. Yes, but it more so has to do with the fact that a lot of our clients use cochlear implants or hearing aids.
And so in order to be able to [00:16:00] have those safely, they have to have a hood or a covering over them when they're out in the rain, cuz often they're not waterproof. Um, and that really can affect somebody's travel because if they're used to being able to use their, the hearing that they get through those devices, if you've got a hood over.
Completely different. So we kind of address it on a case by case basis. We encourage people to be able to experience all kinds of travel environments cuz that's real life, but we don't push people to do stuff they're uncomfortable with either. So
Leslie: absolutely. Especially cuz equipment is just so expensive, so expensive.
Definitely. And when you find something that works for you, like I'm sure, or people are super protective about that. Yep. You guys just do such amazing. And then too, another part of like your guys' role specifically that I always think about is. I mean, so normally when we have clients on campus, clients will sit at a dining room table with their classmates and, you know, share conversation and things like that.
But a lot of times you guys are maintaining the conversation, not only amongst [00:17:00] you and the client, but client to client a lot of time. So it's always a lot of work, all G DMIs put in a lot of effort and a lot of work, but that on top of it, that has gotta be a little bit draining.
Sarah: Well, and if you also think about.
Somebody might get sick of us too, if they're around us. Yeah. , I'm
Leslie: gonna say that, Sarah. Wasn't gonna say it.
Sarah: We're around us all day when we're telling them what to do with their dog, they just wanna have a break we do not blame that. All we get sick of ourselves. So one thing that we get to do often is bring in people.
Uh, we traditionally have called them support service providers or SSPs. There is a change in terminology nationwide. That's happening to Coors. So I'm gonna use that terminology going forward. Um, so Kona navigators basically are not certified interpreters, but they are people who know ASL. And so we're able to bring, um, these people in and hire them to just be one on one with the clients and help facilitate games, conversations, shopping trips, and that way they get [00:18:00] a little break from me.
Leslie: That is so interesting. I didn't know
Sarah: that. That's so cool. We also do in higher interpreters for group actual lessons or anything that's involved in the training where it has to happen in a group, especially for people who are sign language users, they, you can't just go back and forth because either a, if they're not using their site at all, or B having to look and track to see who's signing next is not a.
um, efficient form of communication. So we have a really good group of interpreters that we work with here that are kind of used to some of the weird words we use here at leader dog. our topic of
Leslie: conversation. I know. Do you have to make up. Signs for specific things. Right? Cause it, it is a very unique vocabulary in general.
Like I know there's AIST in the instructor's office and then it kind of has like a Spanish version of some of these words. You kinda have to do the same. Yes.
Sarah: Yes we
Leslie: do. It's just make up stuff. I'm just kidding.
Sarah: basically [00:19:00]
Christina: this
Timothy: right here is just the perfect example. How leader dog is the best organization.
You guys do things that other organizations don't. Think about doing, I mean, it's just the cherry on the top. This is why it's so great to go to leader, dog. The things that we do there
Sarah: absolutely agree. And we should
Leslie: probably give Keith McGregor a little bit of a shout out here. He was kind of the, uh, originator of the, the deaf blind program and he is retiring this year.
And so we are. So sad, uh, to see him go. But from my understanding, we're gonna keep holding onto him a little bit longer. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's not getting away. Yeah. We just can't quite say goodbye. Um, cuz he is absolutely phenomenal. Um, and has been critical really in this program, starting and believing in people who are deaf blind, that they can travel independently with a guide dog.
Um, so he's certainly very important to us at leader dog. Yeah.
Sarah: He's not allowed to retire. He thinks he is, but he not. We'll keep you very busy. He'll be volunteering a lot. I'm sure. have you guys EV it up to you? Yes. [00:20:00]
Christina: Um, so you know, you guys have both been doing this for a while now. Do you guys have any like moments that you think back on that you're so proud of or that you're so excited about?
Um, when you think back on your years doing this,
Kate: you know, we were talking about and reflecting on us. I, I don't think there's one particular exact moment. I just really. Have a passion for seeing, um, my coworkers succeed and develop in their roles. And so as the supervisor, I get to help advocate for, for their needs and how we can continue to make this program better.
And so feel very lucky to do
Sarah: what I do. Yeah. And I agree. I, it's hard to think to pick out just one moment. So many times people say to me, isn't it hard to give the dog away? Cuz you've built a relationship and our puppy razors feel that too so much, but then there's something so amazing about having.
Dog that you train go to somebody and then ha watching them be independent and safe together. That feeling over and over again is what makes this job worth it. So it's definitely. Not one [00:21:00] experience, but an accumulative array of experiences.
Leslie: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And seeing and hearing from people after they've been out in the field for years and they're just such a good working team.
Yeah, absolutely. It's why we do what we
Sarah: do. I was out visiting a client recently and there was one point at which I thought something was happening with the dog. And I was trying to pressure her into doing what I thought was right. , but at this point she knows this dog better than I do. And so she stood up for herself and she said, no, I think that this dog needs this.
And she was spot on. And I just really reflected after that experience was like, yep. Okay, this isn't you anymore. This is them. . That's
Leslie: awesome though. Like what a proud moment for you. Yeah, I was so proud. Like you helped them get to that point to know what was right or what was wrong. Mm-hmm , that's awesome.
All around for everybody. It was cool. Very cool. That's good. So what's what's happening on the DV team? What's what's next? Anything exciting.
Kate: I think we're hoping to expand the program a little bit. We do have the opportunity, like we said to work, um, [00:22:00] more individually with the clients, um, on a lower ratio.
So we're hoping to expand our services and work with, um, individuals, uh, who might have other additional disabilities, such as memory loss or balance issues, maybe traumatic brain injury, things of that nature. So we can really tailor our instruction to what they
Leslie: might need. That's incredible. And then your background super comes into play there, Kate.
Yeah.
Sarah: Yes. Yeah.
Kate: I
Sarah: feel very lucky to be able to, to apply that knowledge, um, you know, working as a
Kate: rehabilitation counselor and that knowledge of diff a variety of disabilities and kind of getting to apply that, um, in this
Leslie: role. So. I think you, I mean, you constantly have to think outside of the box. I kinda hate those terms, but I don't know what else to say here, but yeah, right.
Like you can see an applicant, understand what their struggles are and then fit their unique needs, but know, and believe that they can do it. It's just a different way. And I think that's kind of what we do at leader dog in general, right. Is it's, [00:23:00] you know, everybody, or most people are visually. Accessing the world.
And so we're just coming up with other unique ways in order to do things. And I think that's so exciting to think about serving more people in such a unique way, because this is just not a one size fits all type of training.
Kate: Yeah. That really is kind of the motto of our team. We just really wanna make it as effective for each individual client as we can and make them successful for what their goals.
Sarah: and I think it's
Christina: amazing. I think it's something people don't think a lot about. They don't think that people can have multiple disabilities or have multiple things going on. And so I think it's so cool that we are able to provide this service to clients that, you know, maybe thought, oh, well, I'm blind in this.
I can't have a guide dog because of this. So I think it's really cool.
Sarah: And even if we don't actually end up providing them with a guide dog, we can still be a part of that process of figuring out what does fit their lives, which is so nice too. That is a really
Leslie: good point, right? Because we hear all the time that, oh, my doctor said, I need a [00:24:00] guide dog.
I need a guide dog. Or my mom thinks I need a guide dog, but it is an individual choice. And to help somebody navigate that is crucial too. So whether or not they end up with a guide dog, you've at least eliminated one option. Here's some other resources, some things to check out. That's a really good perspective.
I haven't really thought about that. Thanks. Leslie. she's like, yes,
Sarah: yes, podcast done.
Leslie: that's perfect. Um, and I'm super excited because we got one more on the on and M side too. So just all our listeners here I was. Okay. For our guide dog mobility instructors to also be team king. Yes, absolutely. I
Sarah: was so waiting for Leslie to say that, like I was like,
Christina: when is she gonna say it? I know she's gonna say it.
Leslie: and Sarah's not the only one. No. So we've got Sarah and another team member, um, Meredith who also is completing her internship right now. And she will then be a G DMI and ACOMs, which is very exciting to continue to just have our professionals continue their education, [00:25:00] right. In so many different ways.
It's only helping our clients, which is really what we're all. Any last words, anything else that you wanna share about what you do or your role at leader dog? You guys honestly do so much? Not only again, just to reiterate, not only are they, uh, guide dog mobility, inspectors, and comms and supervisors. But also you, Sarah host one of our kid ambassadors, Vader, who we absolutely love and Kate you puppy raise.
So you do kind of these extracurricular roles that we say they're doing the most. They really are
Sarah: very much all about leader dog, and we're super lucky to both do something we're passionate about. So I try not to take that for granted either. Yes. And we're lucky to be supported by leader dog, as much as we are.
Well, anytime I
Christina: go Tovi I do like to take
Sarah: Vader with me. he's a lot of fun. He loves to go. He loves his treats too.
Leslie: Really good. He loves his treats. Yes. A canine ambassadors are, uh, kind of our dogs who. We're career change for various reasons, but we use [00:26:00] them for different events for, uh, what we call blindfold walks to kind of provide people an opportunity to get a little idea of what it's like.
Not of course, any sort of real understanding, but a little bit of an idea of what our clients are going through. So Vader is one of those lucky Canon ambassadors that we get to take, and he is so much fun. And Kate, you are about to pick up your next puppy. I, we
Sarah: are probably
Kate: at middle to end of October.
We're very excited. I think we might be switching to team, uh, team girl this time.
Sarah: So I'll let you know how that goes. Yes. Still a lab. Are you gonna get
Kate: a. Uh, yes, I think a full lab. So, uh, what about
Leslie: Goldens? Come on. the
Kate: web are the
Leslie: that's cause Christine, the golden. Yeah.
Sarah: I've told multiple times that I'm golden.
Nobody likes the Goldens. It's fine.
Leslie: Special people. You know what
Sarah: I think we're done here. wrap it
Leslie: up. We love all the dogs. We love you, Christina. Thank you ladies for [00:27:00] joining us today. Seriously. Uh, so insightful of what you guys do. Thank you for having us. Yes. Thank you. And thank you so much for listening to the, taking the lead podcast.
I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kuo and Christina Hoeppner. We hope you enjoyed hearing about the important work that Kate and Sarah are doing at leader dog. And please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to free services, you can head to leader, dog.org or call us at eight eight eight seven seven seven five three three.
And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead at leader, dog.org. With any questions or ideas, if you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast stream.