Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kunio. We've been doing this now for three and a half years, and we realize we haven't reintroduced ourselves in quite a long time, I don't think, since our first episode.
So we thought we'd take today at our three and a half years and kind of share who we are and why we're here, and talk more about Timothy's story as well. I.
Timothy: It's crazy. Been doing this for three and a half years, ain't it? Wow.
Leslie: Time has certainly gone by fast and we're so delighted to have all of our new listeners, and this is a great opportunity to just share a little bit more about who we are, why we're passionate about Leader Dog and, and kind of what we do at the organization.
And then of course we'll get to the, the main story, which is always Timothy. Absolutely. Um, to share his journey in kinda in a life update. Yeah. So Leslie, let's start with you. All right, so Leslie Hoskins. I am a certified orientation and mobility [00:01:00] specialist. So again, I went to school to learn how to help people who are blind or low vision travel independently with the long white cane.
I am also now the Outreach services and Community Engagement Manager. Uh, and so for me it's the perfect job. I absolutely love it. But to give you a little bit of history, I started, I like to say in January of 2013 at Leader Dogs for the Blind, where I was honored to. Um, come to Leader Dog. For my practicum experience, I worked with some fantastic o and m specialists, uh, Lynn Gaucho and Barry Stafford.
You hear me mention all the time, but they are some true mentors in the field and they were really the first ones to kind of open, uh, my world up into a world of om and outside of the box thinking and individualized learning and. All sorts of wonderful things. So that's how I originally started. I fell in love with the organization and seeing the impact that, uh, we have on people's lives.
I was fortunate to come back again in the summer of 2013 for my internship where I lived on campus for three months. Wow. Yeah, it was a very long time, but it [00:02:00] was. Such a great opportunity to really dive into the world of blindness, as we say on the podcast, um, and get to know the organization and see how everything works and the impact of what we do and, and really changing people's lives.
And so again, falling more and more in love with Later dog. I was fortunate to come back and, and start as a full-time o and m specialist in March of 2014. From there, I have worked as an o and m specialist for the first six years, uh, teaching people how to travel with the long white cane. I also had the opportunity to run the teen summer camp for those years.
Yes. Which we
Christina: know she talks about that quite often.
Leslie: You know, I love to share about teen summer camp, but that is a true passion of mine. So I was honored to get to do that for, for six years and, and be a big piece of that. Then in uh, January of 2020, I got the opportunity to be the outreach manager. So it was a hard time to go into outreach in 2020, as you all can imagine.
Um, but I feel like this job was [00:03:00] created specifically for me. I get to do everything that I love. I still get to teach and work with clients one-on-one. But I also get to introduce people to Leader Dog. I get to go out into the community, I get to talk to other professionals. I get to talk to potential clients, um, and really share what we do at Leader Dog and how we do it.
Um, so it is a great honor of mine, uh, and a true passion. And that is kind of me at Leader Dog. Yeah, I absolutely love what I do and I've been in this role now for five years, um, and looking forward to all the things that we continue to grow and expand on. Yes.
Christina: And I have learned so much from Leslie in my time at Leader Dog and so I'll share about myself next.
'cause we saved the best for last always Timothy. Yeah, whatever, whatever. So I'm Gina Hepner and I started, I like to say I started at Leader Dog with this podcast. Yeah, sure. Uh, so I am coming up in my four year, so when I. I came here, [00:04:00] we really started the podcast. I was, I have a background in broadcast, so I actually started my career in broadcast journalism.
I've lived all over the Midwest as a reporter and anchor and a producer, so that was kind of the first career that I ever had. So the first six years of my life was being out in the field, being behind that anchor desk. So if you watch the news, that's what I was doing for the first day. Big portion of my career.
And then I decided, you know what, I wanted to move back home. So I'm originally from the, uh, metro Detroit area. And so I moved back home and I thought maybe I'd stay for, you know, a few months and then go back out and do the journalism thing. But I actually found a job in city government. So I ended up in city government for about a year and a half and was feeling like I wanted it.
Something different. I wanted a new challenge and so I actually found my job on LinkedIn at, so I, four years ago [00:05:00] now, I was, you know, kind of just looking on LinkedIn, saw a job posting at Leader Dogs for the Blind, and I applied and I got it. So I don't have kind of that, uh, typical story where people kind of fall into it or they like have someone that they know or go into the field of it.
I actually. Did not go into the field kind of on a whim. We're lucky we have you. Yeah. On a whim. So started to hear about four years ago and when I started having the broadcast journalism background. Uh. Was pulled into, Hey, we wanna start this podcast. And so that was one of my first big projects that first six months was really building out that podcast.
I did not know Leslie or Timothy. I did not know what orientation and mobility was. I did not know what a guide dog I actually did. I knew it was a service dog, but I didn't know exactly what it was. So I came on this podcast being that person who's. Asking those questions that you might want to also ask.
And I continue to do that because I remember how I was when I first started, [00:06:00] was just taking in all the knowledge and information, and I've grown to be really passionate about it. I work in the marketing department and I do client interviews. I do a ton of things and I get to see the impact day in and day out and get to meet so many people.
So I never imagined four years ago when I started that. I meet so many people and have so many different connections and also be raising a future leader dog. Yeah, you really well did. So it's just been such a journey and I can't believe where I started is where I am at now. Um, so this podcast has been great and I didn't know Timothy, we didn't meet, I think for Oh, never
met you
Christina: for about a year in person.
So when we first recorded those first few podcasts, Leslie and Timothy were pretty much strangers to me. And so. We've grown to have such a great friendship and it's wonderful. So I'm glad to be here. And that's a little bit about my background. It's totally different than Leslie and Timothy's.
Leslie: I love to talk [00:07:00] about when Christina first started too.
'cause Christina and I, uh, share. Share. We still share an office. Yeah. But we shared an office the very first day as well. So we've been together the entire time. Um, but yeah, didn't know each other at all. And then. We had a tiny little, it was like a closet office really.
Christina: We shared one desk. We had one desk that we shared and she sat on one side and I sat on the other.
So it was a really good thing that we got
Leslie: along quickly. Yeah. Um, and we have become really great friends. And then Timothy, I always love to talk about too, um, the first podcast we did record The three of us hopped on a Zoom. And again, Christina and Timothy not really knowing each other. I think communicating what via email maybe a couple times.
Yeah. I
Timothy: had to act like I liked her.
Leslie: Yes. And luckily Timothy and I had worked together, so we knew each other well. Yeah. And had formed a friendship, and the three of us really got on a Zoom and kind of tested out the chemistry and, and yeah. Uh, it's been fun ever since. Yeah. I feel like, I feel
Christina: like I was just faking it when we first started.
I was like, I'm acting [00:08:00] like I know these people really well, and I know, know them at all. It was, it was fine. I mean, maybe I still am. I'm just kidding. Oh gosh. Timothy should, I'm just kidding. You guys pick on me all the time. Well,
Timothy: well that means we like
Christina: Exactly. Yeah. And
Leslie: Timothy and I go way back. Yeah.
Way, way back. We back. Yeah. Um, but Timothy, it is the star of the show. Yeah. Whatever. Yes. We wanna focus on you. Uh, I don't even know where you wanna start, but we'd love to hear your journey. Yes.
Timothy: Well, uh, my name's Timothy Kyo. I live in the state of Georgia. Um, I'm the visually impaired person here. Uh, I was diagnosed with retinitis pigment Osis when I was 12.
What retinitis pigment is the. Retina is basically dying. The cones and the rods are dying. So I had night blindness about, I got about 2% of vision in my right eye. Uh, went through high school, uh, was able to graduate, got a job in the optical business. Did that for a while, which is crazy for a blind guy.
Guys going blind, working in optical business.
Leslie: Yeah. You don't hear that often, do you? [00:09:00]
Timothy: No. Yeah. That's pretty rare. Uh, got married, got kids, uh. Got grandkids. I'm a grandpa. Had to retire when I was about 38 years old. And then my journey of depression started kicking in and, and luckily I found Leader Dog Met Leslie in 2000 and 18th of March on my wedding anniversary day.
Leslie: Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah,
Timothy: it was my anniversary week when I met you.
Leslie: Oh, wow. What a great week. That's always been for you. Yeah.
Timothy: Well I was a. I was a pretty rough person, so for the, for my wife, I went ahead and got up there and tried to fix myself. Yeah. And so, uh, that's where my journey started. Uh, been doing this.
I got a guide dog about six months, five months later. Her name is Glacier. Uh, she's been working really hard for the past, almost six years now. Be coming up this August. And, uh, we travel all over the country for on behalf of Leader Dog. And sometimes on my personal trips, we, uh, talk to Lions [00:10:00] Clubs. We go to conventions.
We go to do dinner in the darks. And, uh, I love being around the lions and sometimes I, I. I, uh, get to go on a cruise with my dog, which we've done two or three times and
mm-hmm. We
Timothy: plan another one next September, not this September, but the following September, going back to Alaska. So, uh, yeah, I'm traveling a lot and enjoying myself, uh, enjoying life again, and, uh, it's had going back, the leader dog took me outta depression that I was in.
Because I was feeling like a 12-year-old child. 'cause I had to ask and can you take me to the doctor that never didn't have that independence?
Christina: Mm-hmm. And
Timothy: I was losing it and uh, now I've got my independence. I can do anything.
Christina: Yeah. Timothy, can you talk about how you found Leader Dog and kind of that journey of, you know, accepting and coming to Leader Dog for services?
Timothy: Well, uh, I was going, like I said, through the depression at the time where, uh, I was having bad thoughts. I don't wanna have to describe it any worse than that.
Yeah.
Timothy: Uh, but I went down to a National Federation of the Blind Convention in [00:11:00] 2018 and so happened that was the first trip I ever used that white cane.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Timothy: And it was terrible. It was terrible.
Leslie: Timothy, it's like daggers through the heart.
Timothy: Yes. So I ran into, uh, Meredith McBride, who ended up being my GDMI. Guide Dog Mobility instructor. And she looked at me and said, uh, have you ever thought about getting a guide dog? And I looked at Meredith, I said, I don't how to use this thing, let alone get a guide dog.
And she said, well, we can fix that. And uh, she gave me that application and I filled that application out about six months later and I got accepted the Leader Dog. And that, that's how I met Leader Dog. Thank God I went to Leader Dog. 'cause at that time, uh, leader Dog was the only organization in the country that was doing the o and m instruction.
Christina: So what was it like for you kind of getting to that convention? So what made you decide to finally go and see what was out there for services? Because I know a lot of people go through what you're just talked about going through.
Timothy: Well, I couldn't get any services from the [00:12:00] state of Georgia because I was too old.
I was told I couldn't work, uh, because of my age, so nobody would hire me and they could not get back the tax revenue back out of me. So basically they slammed the door in my face. And so, uh. I found the National Feder Federation of the Blind chapter on the other side of the county over here. And, and, you know, it was getting so bad that I, I didn't wanna be around, out in public anymore.
I hated that cane. I really did. It made me look vulnerable, made me, people gave me pity and I just didn't like the looks of it.
Mm-hmm.
Timothy: But my psychological at that time was I was depressed and I wanted to go and see if I can. Go somewhere and find some some help. And luckily I went to that convention.
That's when I, when I ran into Leader Dog. And so if it weren't for Leader Dog, I don't know where I'd be right now.
Leslie: And you mentioned Timothy, so I, I don't know if I knew this part of the story. So you got the application and then you took six months to fill it out. What was the, yeah. Six months like of kind of making that [00:13:00] determination that you did wanna come to Leader Dog?
Well,
Timothy: I went back in that depression.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Timothy: Yeah. And I didn't fix myself. I went down there and wasted a week of, of not doing what I needed to do for myself. You know, it's hard to accept your blindness and once you reach out to somebody that's not, finally you're reaching and say, Hey, there's something wrong.
There's, I need help. Mm-hmm. And until you get to that point, I was just, I couldn't get to that point. I had to accept it that I'm going blind. And once I got there, that's it. It's been history since.
Leslie: I'm so glad that you came to Leader Dog. I'm so glad you ran into that table in Meredith Bride and that you filled out the application and that you came to Leader Dog for that week of orientation and mobility.
How would you say, you know, that week changed things for you because you, you are a different person, right? When I met you in 2018, you are a very different person than, than you were then. Um, can you talk about the, the impact of that week?
Timothy: Well, the impact of. I went [00:14:00] from somebody who didn't know how to use that cane.
Christina: Yeah.
Timothy: To somebody who I have night blindness, I had never walked in the dark by myself. And so we started off in small baby steps, working down the hallway, going down steps, and then we started getting further and further out from the complex there. The and, and then that Thursday night when Leslie goes, Hey, we're gonna do a night walk.
I looked at her and go, what? You know? And uh, I did that walk. It was so impactful. Leslie, you remember I cried on you. I, I, I, I never done anything like that in my life and I knew then if I just used the tools that Leslie was teaching me, I would be okay. And it was just empowering, knowing that I can do anything.
I got home a week later and went to my Wi Wife and I went to the mall and I said, watch this. And I just was going out there. Doing stuff that normally I'd have had to hang onto her and step on her feet and hurt her and stuff like that. And no, I no longer do that anymore. Just it, it just, [00:15:00] it gives me the power to do what I need to do.
And then going back and getting glacier, oh my gosh. I mean, I. I know Leslie loves the cane, but there's a difference between a cane and a dog.
Yeah.
Timothy: Cane you have to tap your way around stuff where the dog just takes you around it. You don't if it's there. Yeah. So it's just, it's a little bit quicker and a lot of people use a cane and don't want a dog, which is great, but personally for me, I, I love the guy dog.
Christina: Yeah. And so Timothy, what was that like? You know, you were here at Leader Dog for a week, you went home and you tested your skills. When did you decide that you wanted to come back to get a guide dog?
Timothy: Well, they, after that night, walk the next day, uh, they let me try out one of their dogs. And, uh, I tried it and I said, okay, I wanna take this dog home now.
Where's the
Timothy: pink slip? They wouldn't gimme the pink slip. So, uh, like I said, uh. They tell you to wait about 30 days to fill out the application. I waited about 20 and filled it out, and I knew then when I saw, when I was [00:16:00] there at the o and m, I saw what the dogs were doing with the clients that were there.
They were just finishing up their back. Then they went there for four weeks, 28 days. That was the last, uh, group. I did think that did 28 days, and I just saw what those dogs did and I said, man, that, that looks pretty good. I'd like to try that, and, and I did.
Leslie: Can you speak to like the sense of community too?
Because one of the things we try to do is encourage clients to come to campus if they're able, there are many situations where in-home is appropriate, but coming to campus is really that opportunity to connect with other people as well, especially if you don't have, you know, that kind of support or network of other people kind of going through similar things.
Was that something that was important to you or that that had an impact on your life?
Timothy: It had an impact. I still have a, a couple of people I still stay in contact from my class. Um, me personally, I like going to the up to the, uh, the leader dog because the stress of the world goes away and you can focus on you and a dog, or you [00:17:00] and a, or the cane.
And, uh, just the, uh, distractions of the being at home, my, you know, for me. So it's just me and I get focus on me for three weeks. Uh, the, uh, people I met and you're, you're there with people who's just like, you just got there a different way. Um, and it's impactful to be around people who's just like me.
You felt, I felt normal for the first time in my life. And, uh, and 'cause everything at Leader Dog is I. Is, uh, set up for people like us and they care so much about us that focuses on us and the dog or the cane. And it's just you get to relax a little bit for a week or the three weeks and just do you what you need to do.
And that's impactful in my life.
Leslie: That's, uh, that's wonderful. Thank you so much, Timothy, for always being so open and vulnerable and sharing your story. I think it, and well, I know for a fact it helps people. You know, feel like they're not alone. Right? You, you, you are such a mentor and a friend to so many people, and we're often, you know, reaching out [00:18:00] and saying, Hey, can I connect somebody with you?
I know I reached out, what, like a week ago there was a client who's going on a cruise and had a whole bunch of questions, and I was like, you know what? Talk to Timothy, because Timothy's done it seems like a million times. So thank you for being such a good resource for everybody and, and really just being able to share your story.
Timothy: That's what I'm here for. I feel like I, I don't help enough people and uh, if I help one person, that's great, but if I get a hundred people, I help, I still don't think I do enough. And 'cause I, I know there's another Timothy out there that's was struggling with their, with everything. And if I got the knowledge to help them, I wanna share that as much as possible just to make life easier so they don't have to go through what I went through.
I don't want nobody to go through what I went through.
Leslie: And really a lot of, because of your story, right? And hearing how you weren't able to get services through the state is a story we hear very regularly and it has really empowered us as team members and clients, right, to go and talk to these state agencies and other organizations and really try to partner work together because [00:19:00] nobody wants to deny anybody of services, right?
The people who work at state agencies or other organizations, they always wanna help people. But unfortunately they have a lot more rules and regulations that they have to follow, right? Because they're receiving state or federal income or money from insurance companies, which Leader dog does not receive any of.
So we're always very fortunate that we have flexibility on who we can serve and how we can serve. And because of stories like yours, Timothy, we've been going to the National Council of State Agencies, uh, for the blind conferences. We travel all over the place. Anytime somebody is traveling, we try to pop into those agencies and say, Hey.
We're a resource. We wanna partner, we wanna work together. If you have somebody that you can't serve, send them our way. Typically, we can help. Or hey, maybe you're working with somebody and they only have 10 hours of o and m. Well, maybe send 'em to us first. We can build up those skills because our, our week of o and m ends up being anywhere between 25 and 35 hours of instruction.
Then they can go back home in their home environment and use those 10 hours to work on purposeful routes in their [00:20:00] area. So your story has been incredibly impactful for so many reasons. But that also being one of 'em of like us realizing, hey, we need to reach out. We need to be a resource for these other organizations or agencies so that we can all collectively work to.
Together for the bigger mission, right? We want people who are blind or low vision to travel independently, whether that be with a guide dog or a long white cane. Um, so you've been a huge part of that. And your story, like you said, is very similar to so many other clients. Um, and what you do sharing it not only with clients and on this podcast, but you also do a lot of work with the Lions Club.
And I know you've talked about it briefly, but do you wanna share some of, some of the work that you do specifically with the Lions?
Timothy: Well, what I do, they, uh, they contacted the alliance engagement, uh, group up there at Leader Dog. And they look for a speaker because they're either doing a dinner in the dark or they're doing a fundraiser or, or there's a convention that needs to be done.
And so the, what I do, I fly out there, I, I get the, fill out the stuff for the, the airlines [00:21:00] and I go out there and I spend either two or three days, depends on how big the convention is. And, and, uh, I show them the dog. I, I'm one of those people that's active when I go to a convention, I'm out there from, I.
Seven o'clock in the morning to midnight. I want them to see the dog working. I want to see, show the lines, the investment that they make into the, into leader dog. And, and, and I believe if they see the dog working constantly and see what, what I'm able to do with that dog that makes them impressed with Leader Dog and what they, with their supporting.
And so I just do my convention. I, I do the speeches. Uh, I love doing the dinner in the darks 'cause I get to eat for one thing and, uh, uh, we do a blindfold during a dinner in the dark that you do do the blindfold and people get to experience what it's like to be visually impaired. And when we're we're, when we're done with that, I.
I kinda show them what I see. I have them cover their left eye. Then I tell them to take their right hand and make about a size of a dime in it and put that over the right eye. And that's about what my vision is like with some blurriness in there [00:22:00] too. And you know, I say for a minute and put your shoes, put your feet in my shoes.
What could you go to the bathroom? Could you go to your hotel room? Could you do this? Could you do that? And that just brings reality to them. And they see and they can, they can sympathize with us. And, um, I, I just, they just, just do so much for Leader Dog and they do stuff for clients too. 'cause sometimes they go out and film the clients and stuff like that.
So I'm very, I'm a lion myself now, so I'm attached to them at the hip, just like I'm attached to Leader Dog. And so I enjoy being around the lions 'cause they get, I like to get back to my community also. So, uh, Cheryl and I joined the lines here recently.
Leslie: That's awesome. And I love that you're trying to explain your vision to somebody else so they can build that empathy and understanding.
'cause what we don't want is people to, to really feel sorry for people who are blind or low vision or say things like, I could never, or I can't imagine, or those types of things. Um, [00:23:00] what we want people to see is how. People who are blind or low vision are the same as everybody else. They might just use different tools, right?
Different techniques for things. Um, so you do a wonderful job of explaining that and then showing and demonstrating people who are blind or low vision absolutely live independent lives. They have jobs. They go to work, they, they volunteer, they, they travel, they do all of the things just like everybody else.
Maybe just using different tools or tips or techniques. Um, and so I love that the Lions Club does a great job of really educating and advocating for people who are blind or low vision, and you do such a great job of that explaining your experience so other people can get an idea and understanding. And it's one of my favorite things I think that I get to do at Leader Dog two is that advocacy piece and that education piece of just.
Telling people, you know, uh, the resources or the technology or all the different things that are available, but most importantly, getting to hear your story and other stories like yours and, and really seeing you live an [00:24:00] independent life.
Timothy: Yeah. I now I get to show off my meta sunglasses with you. Yes. And they are all blown away what the, how technology has changed everything.
Christina: Yeah. Timothy, talk about the meta glasses real quick, just briefly of um, what they are.
Timothy: Uh, the RayBan, uh, meta, they attach to your Instagram or your Facebook. You gotta have one of those two accounts to get 'em, to get it to work. Uh, it is artificial intelligence. Uh, it reads my letters to me. Now I can go and finally read my own menu.
When I go to a restaurant, it, it gets really specific. Like if I ask what kind of burger this is, it tells me the description of the burger and everything. Um, I've been on flights where I've, uh, get to Dallas, uh, here. Recently, I didn't get any assistance to my connecting gate down to El Paso, so I turned on my, my camera, the WhatsApp, and, uh.
Cheryl got me to my gate 'cause the camera turned on. Oh. And so she got me to my gate and my, 'cause my flight was leaving in, you know, 45 minutes I had to get over there. Yes.
Christina: [00:25:00] So that's just, that's a little sneak
Timothy: peek. Yeah. Sneak peek. We don't wanna talk much about it 'cause I think we're gonna have a future episode.
Leslie: Yes, yes. That is incredible and so exciting. And it's like an affordable technology, which is so, so exciting because a lot of things in the blindness and low vision. Are really expensive. I can't
Timothy: believe how much stuff costs. Yeah, I really can't. It just, I mean, I think the Google glasses are four to $5,000 and who's got that money just laying around.
I.
Leslie: It's nuts. It's nuts. So thank you so much, Timothy. This has been so wonderful, I think to reshare your story. We have a lot of new listeners like we talked about, so it's a great opportunity to reintroduce ourselves. Um, and hopefully all listeners will stay, stay tuned in and, and keep the leader dog story going.
But thank you, Timothy.
Timothy: Well, thank you. I, I've enjoyed doing the podcast. Uh, it's fun to do this and, uh, and I really enjoy the, the, uh, work I'm doing with the Lions and. It's been a pleasure meeting both of you, Leslie, you, you're, you're, you impacted my life and even knowing Christina's [00:26:00] impacted my life a little bit.
Leslie: Thanks, Timothy. Timothy used to always tease, uh, Meredith and I, 'cause I was Timothy's OM specialist, and then Meredith was his guy, Doug, mobility instructor. So he'd say that we were, he was the rose between two thorns and,
Timothy: no, no, no. Meredith and I on
Leslie: his shoulders there. Yeah,
Timothy: on the shoulders because I use my right can, my cane in my right hand and my dog's on my left side.
And you asked, well, where's the angel? And I said, in the middle. So,
Leslie: okay. That's what it was. Yeah, that's
Timothy: it. So
Leslie: I see, well, somehow Meredith and I got the short end of that stick.
Timothy: Yeah. But both of you have impacted my life so much. You guys don't understand. We will always be connected some way. I might come back one day, get a refresh on my o and m, or I might, I will be getting a new guide dog.
But your first, the first people to open the doors for you. Always stay in your heart.
Leslie: Well, thank you and I love you too, Timothy. We've become great friends and you have become such a huge piece of Leader Dog. Um, and really the history of Leader Dog like this [00:27:00] podcast is a, is a big thing for Leader Dog and who knows where it'll go and take off in the years to come.
But it's been an absolute honor to be the original hosts with Christina and you, and, and hopefully we've got a little bit longer of a run with us, but, uh, it's a lot of fun. So, so thank you to both of you. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking Bleed podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hoener.
We hope you enjoyed learning a little bit more about us this episode. Um, and we hope that you join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast Stream.