Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy . We are already in April, which is.
Leslie: Wild. It's busy season now is like go time. We're in it. Um, we have been in it, it is conference season in the professional world.
So, um, I've been all over the place, but we're also gearing up for a lot of big consumer conferences. We've got American Council of the Blind and then the National Federation of the Blind Conventions coming up, uh, here in just a couple months. But I. Specifically, it was just at the National Council of State Agencies for the Blind Conference, which happens twice a year in the spring and fall.
And it's such an honor to join these conferences and really a great opportunity for us to share with state agencies about all of the free services that we offer and ways in which we can collaborate. Because so many times, Timothy, right, like you experienced this of somebody, um, you reach [00:01:00] out for services, you finally, you know,
Make that phone call and then you're told no. Right? Which was kind of your experience. So this is an opportunity for us to get in front of those individuals and say, Hey, don't say no, say try this. And hopefully that's Leader dog, but maybe it's at least another resource
Timothy: needs to be a lot of resources and a lot of people need to know about it.
So it's, it's a good thing right there.
Leslie: Yeah. So it was a great conversation, great conference as always. I always love going. But, um, we also had people, uh, Alyssa at the Tennessee NF. B convention, which was fantastic. Um, we're just, we're all over the place. Yeah. It's busy
Christina: travel season. Yeah. And I'm just here holding the fort, like usual
Timothy: Yeah. I'm, I'm just getting back from, uh, Montgomery, Alabama. I went down to speak with a bunch of, uh. Uh, big, uh, people there in the Lion Club and they're in Hunts. Alabama's blowing up with Leader Dog right now, so we we're now getting Alabama involved in, uh, supporting Leader Dog. So it's a great thing.
Leslie: That's wonderful. [00:02:00] Our outreach really has grown. Alyssa and I have seen a huge uptick in requests for us to be at conferences, both professional and consumer conferences. Um, so Word is getting out there. It is so hard. To try to pick and choose which conferences we can go to, right? We are a nonprofit, so our resources, of course, are limited always.
Um, and we have to be really strategic on where we're going and what we're doing. So that is always so hard to tell, you know, a convention or a conference that unfortunately we can't go. But it is great when we can be there, um, and in person and share all that we have to offer. So yeah, just busy forging ahead here.
It's amazing. It is. It's been great though. So we're loving it. We're gonna keep going. We look forward to a CB and NFB uh, come July, which is right around the corner.
Timothy: For you. I go go into the NFE Convention back in 2017. I don't know what I've been doing right now, so I'm thankful for you guys go to the conferences.
Leslie: Yeah, that's wonderful. And even the conventions are reaching out and wanting us to do presentations. I mean, word is getting out it, [00:03:00] you know, it doesn't feel like at all the time, but it's happening. And our application numbers are certainly showing it so. Way to go team. Everybody, every leader, dog, client, every volunteer, every donor, every team member is an ambassador.
So thank you to everybody for continuing to share about Leader Dog. Um, but today we're here to have somewhat of a different conversation, but along the same lines, we have a guest who is someone who's bringing a different perspective and a much needed conversation about the need for more education regarding blind rehabilitation in the medical world.
Christina: Dr. Allison Weinman received her medical degree from Monash University in Melbourne, Australia, earning her fellowship in the Royal Australasian College of Physicians. There. She completed both her internal medicine and infectious diseases specialty training. She then went to the Mayo Clinic where she pursued further training before taking up clinical positions in academic teaching hospitals in the Detroit area.
Her areas of expertise include clinical infectious diseases, vaccinations, quality, [00:04:00] safety, and antimicrobial stewardship, which she has informed us means smart prescribing and safe use of antibiotic. And she served as a leader in guiding her healthcare system and the broader community through the COVID-19 pandemic and vaccine rollout.
Dr. Weinman recently became a member of the low Vision community and is a proud client of Leader Dog.
Timothy: Dr. Wyman, it's both a pleasure and, and honor to have you on the podcast. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself?
Allison: Yes. Well, thank you so much for the invitation, first of all, and so nice to meet all of you before all this happened, and I'm getting back to my normal life now.
I lost vision in my first eye about 15 years ago, most of my vision. And then, uh, in mid 2023 lost . Most of the vision, my other eye, which is very unexpected. And uh, so I've had lots of different experiences throughout that journey. But in the meantime, I am, I'm [00:05:00] married for a long time. I have a wonderful daughter and her family who live close by, and two little grandchildren who are both born before I lost vision in my second eye.
Um, I'm really usually active. I love to travel. I am a voracious reader normally and belong to several book clubs. Um, I do a lot of dance aerobics and, um, uh, socialize with friends and family, so I. That's kind of who I am.
Christina: Yes. Thank you so much for sharing all that. Dr. Wyman, I could not read your bio for the life of me , because you've done so many amazing things.
Um, so tell us how you got interested in this world of infectious diseases. Well,
Allison: first of all, it's the best specialty. . Um, it's really interesting and it's, it's never boring. The same . It's never the same two days in a row. So, um, people get infections both in the community [00:06:00] and you know, like they may have aids, they may have pneumonia, they may have, uh, cellulitis, a skin infection.
They may have simple infections. But also patients who stay in the hospital long enough tend to get infections just because of their environment, because a lot of antibiotics are being used. There's a lot of other patients who have infections, et cetera. So you end up interacting with a huge array of
Patients with of different ages, and my specialty is all adult medicine. Um, but also you get to kind of snoop into all the other specialties because they're referring patients to you. So actually in my career, I've treated many patients, ironically with eye infections, um, and in consultation with ophthalmology.
And so that is. A whole other area. But it's very interesting that every day is different. So you can get involved in anti-microbial stewardship, which is a wise and safe prescribing of a limited resource, and to make sure patients come to as little harm as possible. 'cause all drugs have potential side effects [00:07:00] and toxicities and you get to mingle with all the other specialists and learn about, so you have to keep.
Very much on top of things. We're kind of known in the, in the internal medicine world as the detectives, because we tend to do a really thorough chart review, we take, tend to take very careful histories because as they all say, 85% of the diagnosis is in the history. And that's often true if you can get a history from a patient.
And we're very detail driven down to the microbiological level. So we have to know a lot of microbiology. We interact very often with the micro lab. You have to be able to stand back and say, well, wait a minute, is this an infection? Or did the doctor just think it was an infection? Is it something else that's masquerading as an infection?
Um, so we see the sickest patients in the ICU and then we see patients in the general ward as well. And I also had, um, would see patients in outpatients. So it's really varied. Every day is different. And teaching, mentoring, educating, it's, it's really an interesting specialty.
Leslie: I can't imagine trying to stay on top of all that.
[00:08:00] Like, I mean, just the educ continuous education that I'm sure you have to be a part of and constantly reaching out to others and, and, and just, wow, that is absolutely a lot. And you mentioned in, in your, um. Explanation there about working with ophthalmologists and optometrists, and I know we've had this discussion kind of offline here, but kinda of the lack of overall awareness sometimes when it comes to blind rehab, whether that be with eye care professionals, medical professionals, just anybody who's not.
Who doesn't have a firsthand experience with, um, blindness or low vision. Um, and, and you found that really surprising once you were, you know, impacted with low vision?
Allison: Yes, that's really true. Um, I had worked in healthcare for . Decades, my whole professional career, and I never heard the words Low Vision Clinic in my whole career.
Wow. And obviously I had patients that were low vision, but they were referred to me by ophthalmologists. And when I was done, usually fixing them, but not always, they would go back to ophthalmology. And [00:09:00] what became of the patients, I didn't tend to see them again.
Christina: Yeah.
Allison: So I didn't know that there were all these rehab programs and that those rehab programs, like Low Vision Clinics lead on to referrals for
Patients like me that didn't know anything about, um, the resources in the community. So that piece of being referred to a low vision clinic is really key because patients really do tend to listen to the specialists they see and to take their recommendations. And there's a lot of data that patients do follow their healthcare providers recommendations.
For example, um, vaccines. So somewhat controversial. Mm-hmm . More now so than it has been in the past. Shouldn't be. But it is. Yeah. Um. The, the strongest data-driven, um, indicator of whether a patient will accept a vaccine is whether or not their healthcare provider recommends it to them. Yeah, and the same really applies to ophthalmology, although I haven't seen data on this, is if your healthcare work, if you're healthcare provider, your [00:10:00] ophthalmologist doesn't refer you, then it's a problem.
And I think there's so many reasons why. Referrals are not as robust as they could be. And I think it's important to come from the perspective of, of a physician. We are very trained to fix people. Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. We trained to work with the patient and their families to cure them, whatever ails them.
And I think from the ophthalmologist point of view, remember many of them are trained as surgeons. Get in, cut it out, fix it, fix it, fix it, fix it. And although, . Site loss, as we all know, is so devastating to the individual patient and their family and their community of friends and family. It is also very difficult for a healthcare provider.
An ophthalmologist is trained to retain vision and when they can't. As one of my ophthalmologists told me, I hate seeing patients like you.
Leslie: Yeah.
Allison: And because I can't do anything. to help you. And so that's part of the mindset. The other thing [00:11:00] I've heard from, and I, I think also sometimes they think the low vision clinic is so inundated with patients.
Mm-hmm . That they don't think sometimes, like a small amount of lack of vision, as we all know, everybody with low vision sees different things. Mm-hmm . People who are blind see different things. So it's also hard to predict how that's gonna impact somebody on a daily basis. And they may think that somebody who has loss of vision, maybe in just one eye or in just part of their vision, maybe they don't qualify for services at a low vision clinic, and they don't realize that that is really something that should be assessed.
And so I think the question that should be asked for every patient that ophthalmology sees who has vision loss is not, you know, why should I send this patient to a low vision clinic? But it should be, why shouldn't I? Yeah, because. The what leads on from there is so important because then those folks hook you up with resources that really, if you've come from a sighted world, you may not know about those resources at all.
Leslie: Absolutely. And we've had Dr. Tracy on here [00:12:00] who's an ophthalmologist in Michigan area and he, you know, has gotten involved with Leader Dog and he's been asking these same questions and saying exactly what you said. He's like, it is frustrating when you can't fix somebody, you can't help them. Um, and he really took it upon himself to educate himself about blind rehab and has really set up some great.
Programs care to care. And he's really been connected, you know, with other ophthalmologists in the area. So he's been a huge voice for leader dogs specifically, but just in general blind rehabilitation, which has been really exciting to see. But, um, you know, we, we also have the medical advisory committee.
Our task force now, um, made up of a lot of medical professionals here who we kind of consult with and, and whatnot and ask these types of questions of how do we get to these professionals and educate them on this topic. Um, and one of the things that we keep coming back to is, is that, that a lot of times.
they're not educated in their programs, right? About blind rehab or what they are educated [00:13:00] on is very, very brief. And so me as an OM specialist, I, uh, Erica Ike and I were talking about this and we're like, that's kind of what we learned about guide dogs, right? It's like one chapter and it's not because there's a lack of wanting.
To learn more about it. It's just there's not enough time. And as you're talking about infectious diseases, oh my gosh. All this stuff that you have to know. Um, so I really appreciate you bringing this topic, uh, to the forefront. And I'm curious, what suggestions do you have for anybody who would want to do a little bit of education on the front end, uh, about, you know, making those referrals?
Allison: Yeah. I think it really comes back to, excuse me. People really are come back to their training when they're physicians. Mm-hmm . And especially when it's a difficult case and maybe you haven't been as successful as an ophthalmologist with that particular patient. And so it depends on what you've seen. I.
Have you seen other people refer to low vision clinics? Have you, are you aware of resources in your area? It's not a lack of want. Mm-hmm . I think they, they [00:14:00] genuinely wanna help people, but they don't know themselves. And I think it comes back to medical students get very little training. I, I, I went to medical school a long time ago, got almost no training in low vision.
No, I think virtually nothing. And I know from speaking and teaching at medical schools, there is almost nothing done in low vision. and then when people become residents and fellows, you know, ophthalmology, residents and fellows need to come to Leader Dogs to see the important makes, you know, training that they do, they need to go to a low vision clinic.
And the ophthalmologist that finally referred me to a low vision clinic. Shamefacedly admitted to me that she had never been to a low vision clinic and she couldn't be very specific about how they could help me because she honestly didn't know what they did there. And I think that basic coordination and education of the, and like I said, it's not 'cause anybody doesn't wanna help their patient, it's because.
They're also, they're really busy with other patients that they can fix and there's pressure of [00:15:00] time and all those things. But it should just be an automatic thing that, you know, let the low vision clinic assess whether their vision is low enough, let them work in concert with the ophthalmologist and the patient.
And the feedback I've heard on the other side from the ophthalmologist is sometimes patients don't wanna go. Mm-hmm . Patients think there's a stigma going to a low vision clinic. And I think having experienced that, I, I agree. There's kind of a stigma going there. You know, you're thinking who are the other patients who are going here?
Um, but once you accept that you need help in an area and they can provide things for you and then they, when they run out of resources or your insurance won't pay for it, then you learn about other amazing resources in the community, like Leader Dog that can provide . Resources that they don't have the time or the expertise to do.
Timothy: Mm-hmm . So what are some of the things that, uh, people can do to educate their, uh, professionals or some other physicians about rehab?
Allison: You know, I, I think it's, you know, everybody kind of knows [00:16:00] in the sighted community, you know, you break your leg, you're probably gonna get physical therapy, you're gonna get a referral for physical therapy.
There isn't that expectation, um, amongst, you know, when people go lose vision or go blind completely. It is such a devastating. Think folks are not thinking in their best way and it can be very hard if you're alone to advocate for yourself. So I think that rather than putting it on the patient, although it would be great to do general education, so people of course in the Society of community know these incredible resources exist.
And I think that's an important role. But I think it really comes back to you are trusting your healthcare professional when you go, when you get a diagnosis of cancer, for example, we don't . Expect the patient to know everything about that and what resources are available to them. We want them to come informed.
But don't forget, it's hard when you're newly blind or visually impaired to get resources to see what you're getting into. So I think it's more awareness in the [00:17:00] community is great, but I think it really comes down to. Speaking to directly and having ophthalmologists and general doctors, I, you know mm-hmm
I didn't know about the resources. Yeah. So, and getting out in front of physicians and trainees to say, look, there are these amazing resources when you can't do anything else, you can change somebody's life by making a referral or mentioning to them, or strongly recommending it to
Christina: them. Yeah. That is great.
And I know you said you didn't know about resources. How did you find Leader Dog and then why did you choose to come here for our services?
Allison: Well, that was the other thing that I know we've talked about off the line as well, is that I was in, ended up ended up, I'd never heard the words orientation mobility before.
I didn't know what that was. Yeah. And in fact, how I ended up with a cane in the first place was we were going to the theater as a family, and I can't remember if it was me or one members of the family said, Hey, would a white cane help? Mom navigate, you know, through the crowds at this, at this. Program.
And so at the very end of the day, I was handed a white [00:18:00] cane, didn't know there were different tips, didn't know anything about it, and they said, oh, you just kind of sweep it. And that's, and I thought, oh, if that's all there is to it, . And then they kind of said, oh, you might wanna consider o and m training.
And they . Briefly explain that. So I was offered it by, um, several agencies. Yeah. And really it was coincidental because I knew Leader Dogs. Of course the dogs. I knew that, yeah. I knew also I didn't want a dog.
Christina: Mm-hmm . Yeah.
Allison: So I knew that. And I think it's great that people have dogs if they want them. I think, uh, we've had a golden retriever in the past who was a lot of work.
Um, he was a doofus and would never have made it through day, day one of training. But, you know, I just felt that he would . I, I just was having enough trouble becoming independent myself. I didn't wanna have to have the responsibility of a dog as well. Yeah,
Christina: absolutely.
Allison: So, um, how it came about was just coincidence actually.
I had gone on the website and I saw that there was orientation, mobility training. I didn't really know what that was at the time. Yeah. And [00:19:00] I ran, met somebody who had just completed o and m training at Leader Dogs. Oh wow. And who happened to be having a conversation about it that I. Was part of, and she said she'd waited eight or nine years after she lost her vision to come here.
And she said The biggest mistake I made was not going earlier. And so it was purely on the basis of that recommendation. And then speaking to other people at Leader Dog. That made me come here. And I actually thought, naively, you know, if it's that easy that someone just handed me a cane, , what am I gonna do in six days?
What the heck am I, what are the heck are they gonna teach me in six days? Because you, you often don't know what you don't know. Yeah.
Leslie: That's such a good way to put it. You don't know what you don't know. We, and we hear that time and time again also about, I wish I would've come sooner. Mm-hmm . And I think to your point about, um, going back to not wanting to go to a low vision clinic as a client, right.
Because there is stigma there and, and a lot of people [00:20:00] also don't believe that they deserve services because they still can see some. That's one of the factors or things we're trying to get over here, is that you to be legally blind or to be blind doesn't mean that you see nothing. Right. Right. 90% of our clients have some remaining vision.
So trying to get that across. And that doesn't mean that you're you, you know, portraying something that you're not or anything like that if you have some low vision. But if your travel is impacted by your vision, you find yourself not going out at night. You're running into things you don't wanna travel alone, all sorts of things because of your vision.
That means you'd most likely benefit from orientation and mobility. And to your point about it is a little bit more sweeping back sweep than sweeping the cane back and forth. , did you feel like you had enough to learn in those six days that you were here? Oh my gosh,
Allison: yes. I had, I had, it was quite enlightening.
I, Garrett was my o and m instructor and. First of all, of course everybody hates doing the application process, right. It's long and you've gotta do this darn video and you've gotta be [00:21:00] interviewed. And I thought, oh my goodness. But you know, it really made a difference because when I came here, Garrett had looked at that video and he knew a lot about me already.
Yeah. And he took time to sit down with me and say, what do you like to do? Um, what are you the most frightened of? And he. Both confronted those fears in terrifying ways at the time, . But I, but I, he made me feel like I could do them and I could, you know, we went on a three mile hike at, uh, one of the metro parks because I said I liked hiking and he figured out different dis different.
Attachments to my cane to make that possible because I had already come to the mindset I won't be able to do that anymore. Sure. We went up and down hills, different terrains, different everything. It was amazing. And so, um, I learned an awful lot. Um, and I also think that that is so important that you think that you've got enough vision that you can manage and you don't need OM training.
Well. Garrett showed me by making me do a [00:22:00] blindfolded obstacle course and then making me do an obstacle course with my cane without the, the blindfold. Which way are you? Quicker and safer. Oh my God. The cane. I need the cane. Mm-hmm . Yeah. And it makes you realize, okay, I can see, I can walk across the room without bumping into anything.
I don't have depth perception. I can't see colors clearly. I can't see what's a shadow and what's a step. So I thought it was incredibly useful and I was really appreciative of how . Flexible, um, Garrett was, and how how much the, the orientation was directed towards me as an individual. Yeah. And to work with the one instructor for so many days was just, it was, it was life changing.
Christina: Yeah. I know Leslie is very happy about this conversation, , because we were talking about strictly orientation mobility, and I know it's, it's so great that you're saying it was individualized towards you. 'cause we hear that time and time again. We have so many clients from. So many different places all over the world and [00:23:00] they're living so many different lives.
So yeah, sometimes it's tough to take that video or get someone to help you take that video, but like you said, he knew inside and out like how you walked and really individualized that for you. So that is really great to hear for us.
Allison: Yeah, it's, it, it was just life changing and I know people say that all the time.
The other thing, I think that the advantage that Leader Dog had, and I would recommend anybody to come here for o and m training above the places that say, well, we'll come to your house, and well, Garrett did all that. He came and we went for a walk with my husband. We walked towards my daughter's house.
He looked at the intersections. He was wonderful. But I think I had never, as a sighted person, . Ever been in a community of people with low vision where that was normal and losing your vision for the first time, or losing it in my case for the second time is. Terribly isolating. Yeah. And you feel like it's just you and how are you possibly gonna manage?
And from the minute I came in here and the residential, uh, person was showing me to my room and I [00:24:00] thought, I can, I can go, I can find the room myself, you know, I can struggle and find it. And she showed me through the room, this is how you adjust the thermostat and so on. It just felt so comforting to be in a place where it's just normal.
That, and later on I thought, oh, that's great. I didn't have to ask somebody how to do that. Because I had already been shown in such a respectful, normalized way that everything was just, I was in an environment where everything was just catering towards low vision and blindness.
Timothy: Well, do you mind telling us how your vision has impacted your work?
Because I find it amazing that you're able to do what you do.
Allison: I'm not able to do what I was able to do before, and I'm still trying to figure out that piece of it. Um, a large part of my work was visual. And so I'm still trying to navigate my way through those pieces.
Leslie: Absolutely. Well, I would just wanna say this is my cup of tea, this conversation,
I could go on and on and on for [00:25:00] a long time diving into all of this. So I wanna thank you, Dr. Weinman, for joining us today. Yes. Sharing about yourself, sharing about your experience, and . and really that overall passion and drive to educate people, to educate professionals, whether they be ophthalmologist or other medical professionals, to educate community members, to educate, just honestly anybody, people don't know about Blind rehab.
And the more we can do to tell people and scream it from the rooftops, the better. Um, and not just specifically Leader Dog, of course, that's what we're here championing, champion. Ing because we have these free services, but there are wonderful low vision clinics that can make a huge impact on people's lives.
There are other state services and agencies, other nonprofits. So, um, thank you for being here and thank you for all that you do.
Allison: Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having them.
Leslie: And thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with host Timothy Kyo and Christina Hoeppner.
We hope you enjoyed learning about Dr. Weinman and her drive to educate [00:26:00] about blind rehab. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness. And if
Christina: you'd like to learn more about applying to our free. Services at Leader Dog. You can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
Don't forget you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast history.